Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Keenan on October 26, 2009, 01:41:33 pm
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Yew ring count. I've seen several comments about this and this is what I have found through allot of testing and trial. I'm sure there are some that will disagree, but these are my findings not what I've read or heard.
I have several bows that I've made from extremely high ring count and have thousands of shots through them, with no noticeable weakening or fatigue. I believe if a yew bow is built right it will hold up for your life time.
Yew is one of the great bow woods ,that is very versatile and almost any part of the tree can make a great bow, with the exception of serious compromising knots. Limbs work just a well as the trunk.
What I have found is that lower ring count yew is less dense, not as strong and takes on more set. I've had some disagree we this in the past but I think it might be, that they have not had experience, with great high ring count yew and tend to think lesser ring count as equal. The reality is, that yew is good weather low or high count. However if I were looking at side by side stave's, one of 15-20 rings and one of 40-60, I would drop hard earned cash on the high ring count in preference every time.
I live in abundant yew country and have had more experience with this wood then any other woods that I've used. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. ;D
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With my more limited experience with yew, I'd have to agree. I've only made a half dozen yew bows, because I live in an area that has no yew trees, and it's very expensive for me to obtain. I've made several higher poundage longbows tillered full compass with high density yew (40+ rpi) which seem to be holding up just fine after many shots. I've also made some shorter length bendy handle low density yew bows, some backed with rawhide, and these all took on about twice as much set.
I respect Mr. Bickerstaffe. I spent a few hours in his shop, and was able to learn a vast amount in that short time. He was a very gracious host. However, I do disagree with him on a few points. The one about a yew bow being "shot out" in only a few months doesn't hold any water for me. As I said, I have several high poundage yew selfbows, and after several hundreds of shots, they all seem just fine. Also, yew will make a bow out of very marginal material, as opposed to other woods which would be junk. Yew is tough stuff. It just seems to enjoy bending. It's also very easy to work, as it's a softer wood. I believe much controversy exists with yew.
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"Also, yew will make a bow out of very marginal material, as opposed to other woods which would be junk. Yew is tough stuff. It just seems to enjoy bending. It's also very easy to work, as it's a softer wood. I believe much controversy exists with yew. "
Well said; I agree. I had a talk with one of the members today about what makes yew a great bow wood. He had heard about it denting easy because of being soft. Though it dose dent easy in comparison to hard woods such as Osage, it dosen't seem to matter much or cause failure. It's just overall very durable as bow wood. And as ADB said that makes it easy to work, ;)
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i love working with yew. After making 8 or 10 yew bows this season i have come to know it alot better. I understand why it is made to compass through the handle: the yew stiff-handled bows i have made took alot of set. Also, i have found that yew works better as a narrow d-shaped bow than as a flatbow. The ring count was fair. I dunno, never counted but probably 6 to the quarter inch at least. The wood seasoned quickly when split into staves (a couple of the pieces i had found were already downed trees). It's gorgeous stuff and i can't wait to get back to working it. Got to finish the wife's bow, but i'm too busy now! hmm...
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Hi, I've just posted a thread about Weird Yew, maybe you'd have a look, I just cut a great lookin' piece, but found a weird area which is neither sap wood nor heart wood, it looks like it's almost in the process of becoming heartwood. Dunno if you've met this ?
I want to maximise my use of the log, I was severly dissapointed once I'd felled it :(.
Cheers
Del
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Radius, I think the reason that your stiff handle bows took more set is because a thicker narrow profile bow will generally take on more set then a flat bow. Contrary to your thoughts I perfer a flat much more then a deep narrow for yew. I've found about 1.5" wide and a very squashed oval profile is what I like best. With that design it doesn't matter if you have a stiff handle, and the bow is less likely to take excessive set.
The beauty of yew is that it is very versatile for different designs. I think if you do some more flat bows out of yew with good high ring count, you will change your mind. ;)
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well god knows i'm gonna keep making bows! In a few years i might have as much experience as you, and we can compare notes then.
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Radius, I think the reason that your stiff handle bows took more set is because a thicker narrow profile bow will generally take on more set then a flat bow. Contrary to your thoughts I perfer a flat much more then a deep narrow for yew. I've found about 1.5" wide and a very squashed oval profile is what I like best. With that design it doesn't matter if you have a stiff handle, and the bow is less likely to take excessive set.
The beauty of yew is that it is very versatile for different designs. I think if you do some more flat bows out of yew with good high ring count, you will change your mind. ;)
my stiff handled bows were flatbows, Keenan. I didn't read you properly at first.
When you say "squashed oval" are you describing camber across the back and a flat belly?
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One other thing I neglected to mention that I like about yew, is it's ease to bend with almost all heat sources. I usually boil the tips for slight recurves with yew.
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Radius, yes If I take a mid limb cut it would look like a very squashed oval slight curve on the belly and crown, with the edges about center line. This has become my favorite. However not all stave's will work for that profile; sometimes with an abundance of knots a profile like you prefer will work best, Thats the beauty of yew is the versatility. As far as experience I doubt I have that much more then you. Though I may have some years on you,you are kicking out allot of nice bows and nothing trumps hands on experience. ;) We share these thoughts to broaden our understanding. Just as I may encourage you to rethink the flat bow you have encouraged me to try some more elbs. Everyone gains. ;)
I do respect your input very much. You have dove in with both feet and learned allot about yew in a short time. ;)
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thanks Keenan
Another wood that grows in my area is Juniper, which i think you have some practice with, as well. Must juniper be backed? Or will its sapwood serve as a strong enough backing?
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I do respect your input very much. You have dove in with both feet and learned allot about yew in a short time. ;)
Thanks for that, man! It was only a few months ago i brought home a buttload of cedar, thinking it was yew, and you said, "Uh, yeah, i've cut a lot of yew and that aint it!"
Don't worry, i didn't take it the wrong way, but man did i feel stupid for putting so much work into the wrong thing! Few months off bowmaking for me now, but when i get back in i should have a good stash of yew to work with!
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Radius, Juniper can make a good bow but it's not near as versatile as yew. The heart wood by itself is too brittle to hold up without backing. With sap wood heart wood combo a self bow is possible but not recommended. It has various reports of letting go after a certain amount of shots. I have made on self bow (only one I've tried and as far as I know it's still together. But as a general rule of thumb baked is the safer way to go with juniper. It's excellent for short sinewed replica bows. And Juniper Junkie just made a great Hildagard/sinew bow that is a very good performer. I have made a few longer elb style bows from juniper that were very sluggish, and had thought they are best as short bows. But Dave has made a great shooter on his recent one.
Lots of different variety and hard to tell the difference with out a good book. One thing that I have noticed is the juniper with bark that looks like it has horizontal slash marks every foot or so is not good. It's ususally real straight and clear but is like balsa wood. I perfer the mountain or common Juniper and like the top part of a limb.
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ah well...i just have to arrange a ride and i've got a truckload of yew waiting for me in a small town on vancouver island....i think the yew around here is pretty good, but i'm new...maybe 20 bows from now i'll think differently.
i think this thread started from a comment i made about pip bickerstaffe on another thread recently. I sure hope to get to work with the man, and hang in his shop, and just see what goes on in a professional bowyer's shop. I love what he said to me: I have made over 15,000 bows, and i'm starting to get an idea what wood can do.
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Here is a few pics of one that I am working on. It's high elev. Very tight but this stave was severely deflexed. About 6.5" I learned a few years ago, not to overlook the potential in a deflexed stave. Especially with yew because it heat corrects very well. This bow is just roughed out but here is what it looks like after I rolled the mid limb a little for an R/D profile.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/bornagainprimitve/IMG_0892-1.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/bornagainprimitve/IMG_0894-1.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/bornagainprimitve/IMG_0865.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/bornagainprimitve/IMG_0895.jpg)
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That's some sweet looking timber you have there...
Del
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Ring count is certainly one indication of how good/not-so-good a piece of yew can be. More rings means a more dense piece of wood. Less dense yew needs more wood to do the same thing. There are other considerations though.
Evaluating Yew wood: http://analogperiphery.blogspot.com/2008/06/evaluating-yew-wood.html
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ok, well none of my pieces have that many rings! Still good stuff though, this sea level yew i've been working with. Cool r/d on that one bow. Show me that one with a string on?
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Very good article Shamus. Thank you. I agree there are some many factors to consider and not always "cast in stone" results when it comes to yew. I have had some with serious wind shake that still made bows and have seen what looked like excellent prestine yew explode. Most is very durable. ;)
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This yew made a very serviceable bow. I tend to think that higher ring count is the ticket.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Nice Oldbow, That looks very similar to the one that Del the Cat posted on the "weird Yew" thread. Maybe you can share some insights about your findings with that piece. Is most of the yew in that region similar with the "migrating" sapwood? Is it consistant in the upper part of the stave or similar to the end view pic?
Radius, I have had a long string on it but have not taken it to a short string yet. I've contiplated making a heavy bow with this one but I'd have to find someone to pull it ;D
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Quote; "pip said that 15-20 growth rings per inch is o.k....but,i all ways thought the more growth rings per an inch was better...so,why does every one bragee about 30-40 growth rings...just trying to get it right for some bow making...thanks john"
John, As far as people bragging about high ring count yew it is because there is a difference. Low ring count yew is great bow wood, no doubt, however high ring count is better. Most who think low ring count is as good, have never tried high ring count yew. It is denser and stronger and takes less wood to make a strong bow. Come over and I'd be happy to show you the difference and do some bend test for you. This is not meant in any way to say that low ring count yew is bad. Almost all yew is great bow wood.
I'm simply trying to put out accurate information on what to look for as the best wood available. I am not trying to sell my bow wood, most all the yew that I have I want to keep for future bows. This should show that what I'm saying is for education.
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holy cow,this is a good read...i am learning some thing :D :D...i really wish i knew how to post photos..my wife does it...i have a piece of yew that i got..and i have a question about..its about color of yew...and i don't know if color is a way of reading if the wood is good quality or bad..its a small tree and the color is a deep red NOT pinkish..and it also has what looks to be maybe a brown...the ring count is very high..i haven't counted it..but some of the rings are so fine that it looks like one growth ring...keenan,are you still trying to get me to come over ;D ;D ;)...yes,i really need to come over..i have one course of sinew on that vm stick that we traded for dacite..i told my wife it would be hers if WE can get it done..john p.s. does any one have more end shots of yewwwww..
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john the color that your are describing should be great. It tends to get that color in the drier regions where it grows slower. I have one that I just quatered, that sounds like what you just described ;) And yes, I'm still trying to get you to come over and play with sticks. >:D I'll post some more pics when I can
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Hello Keenan ;D Here are the pictures I promised you. I cut this yew about two weeks ago. When I first opened the wood up, it was a whole lot darker red at that time. Now it has lightened up a bit but I thought I would show you the pictures anyways. The photo of the end peice I counted 43 rings in one inch. So tell me what you think about the peice of wood. It has some discoloring on one side of it. Later, John.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/longarrow/DSC_0644.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/longarrow/DSC_0646-1.jpg)
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Blacktail, I would say that is one tight ringed stave! Wonder how old that is?
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With this piece of yew, I could be inclined to take off most of the sapwood.
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hey don,thanks for the info on the sap wood...i think you have me beet with the mt yew...very nice stuff...john
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That looks very nice John. The side on the right by your index finger looks like the best, however you also have to take into account where knots are in the log. Good looking yew. The discolored on the left may have been form an injury to the tree.
Don, very nice looking yew I would agree with the sapwood and leave about 1/8 - 1/4 inch of sap and that section right below the skull at the top looks premium
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The skull was from a black bear lying close to the yew stand. Packed both back. Would have liked to know more about the story of the skull.
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The skull was from a black bear lying close to the yew stand. Packed both back. Would have liked to know more about the story of the skull.
couldn't ya just make up a story?
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If only trees could talk ::) Nice skull ;)
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My favorite selfbow I made for myself is from some Yew billets given to me by Jim Fetrow. Its as fine a wood as I have seen, and trying to count the rings would be an exercise in futility..Easily 70+rpi..
That being said if someone handed me an average piece of yew I'd still try and get the best bow I could out of it..I don't see much yew here in the desert...
I'm quite sure like other woods there are yew staves which look "average", but end up performing much better than expected especially with the knowledge base we have nowadays..and skinny synthetic strings ;)
Rich-I'm still drooling over that piece Keenan is working on... :D
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Guy's, I like yew as a bow wood as well as the next guy, and I have built a few, but the stuff is way over rated and over priced. Yeah I understand ya gotta climb a mountain to get it, but I ain't the big bucks for someone to do it. I'll take 2 or 3 osage stave for the price everytime. That's my thoughts on the subject. If ya got yew, I'm happy for ya. ;D
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Dano, I can definitely understand what your saying about price. I can't believe what I see some of it sell for and I've very thankfull to live in yew country. It is a pain in the #$$ to get permits but they are obtainable if you go through the process.
It's all about region. I wish at times we had Osage abundantly growing here but since I cut my teeth on these white woods and yew. I tend to do better on them then I do the yellow stuff.
by the time I pay for a decent Osage and the shipping it's not cheap on this end either. Guess you'll just have to stay with the gold dust and I'll just keep wandering in them mountains. ;D
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I hear ya Keenan, since I moved from osage country, I have to pay the price too. :-[
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High ring count does not necessarily mean a more dense wood. I've worked with Yew that had a ring count of 30~40 RPI that was considerably more dense than Yew that had a ring count of 60~70 RPI. The density of wood is important but not quite as important as it's elasticity
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So, how does one go about assessing yew? Until now, I've always assessed yew purely by ring count... high ring count = more dense wood = better bows. What I'm hearing is that this is not necessarily the case. For the yew experts, what criteria do you use to assess a stave?
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Mark, I do respect your knowledge as a bowyer and know you have a few years on me in that realm, However have a hard time agreeing with that statement. Higher ring count means more late wood (denser cell structure) less early wood (lighter cell structure) So it's hard to imagine that a 30-40 RPI could be denser then a 60-70 RPI. Have you done any testing on your theory?
I do agree that elasticity is more important then density, but yew is so elastic in general, that in yew, I don't find this to be a problem.
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hey i think adb has a good question....now i am a rookie...but,i think if it has a low ring count you would leave more wood on..if it has a high ring count then you could take more wood off..i think this is what adb is asking..i might be wrong ???....MY QUESTION...how do you know when to reduce sap wood...is an all around good measurement 1/8-1/4 good...thanks john
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sorry keenan i was writing when you was ;D...
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Good input John, Because the yew sapwood is more elastic then the heart wood and it can handle slight ring violations as well, it is generally good to leave a thin layer for the back. So yes a good rule of thumb with yew is 1/8 - 1/4" of sapwood
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From what I've read, John Strunk and Glenn St. Charles both preferred yew cut from higher elevations, with an average ring count of 40-60 rpi. Slow growth has a lot to do the density of wood, but that's just my theory.
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Mark, I do respect your knowledge as a bowyer and know you have a few years on me in that realm, However have a hard time agreeing with that statement. Higher ring count means more late wood (denser cell structure) less early wood (lighter cell structure) So it's hard to imagine that a 30-40 RPI could be denser then a 60-70 RPI. Have you done any testing on your theory?
I do agree that elasticity is more important then density, but yew is so elastic in general, that in yew, I don't find this to be a problem.
Keenan
I used to think as you do that tight ringed Yew had to be more dense than Yew with a lower ring count. I had to revise my way of thinking after buying some relatively tight ringed, about 50~60 rpi, Yew that was noticeably less dense than some lower ring count Yew I had.
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Intresting info Mark. Thank you. Do you remember the color and weather it had any "Shot" look the the grain? What diam tree, if you can remember.
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I used to think as you do that tight ringed Yew had to be more dense than Yew with a lower ring count. I had to revise my way of thinking after buying some relatively tight ringed, about 50~60 rpi, Yew that was noticeably less dense than some lower ring count Yew I had.
There are bound to be exceptions to the rule, especially with organic material. Every piece of wood is different and needs to be treated individually.
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Mark, I do respect your knowledge as a bowyer and know you have a few years on me in that realm, However have a hard time agreeing with that statement. Higher ring count means more late wood (denser cell structure) less early wood (lighter cell structure) So it's hard to imagine that a 30-40 RPI could be denser then a 60-70 RPI. Have you done any testing on your theory?
I do agree that elasticity is more important then density, but yew is so elastic in general, that in yew, I don't find this to be a problem.
Keenan
I used to think as you do that tight ringed Yew had to be more dense than Yew with a lower ring count. I had to revise my way of thinking after buying some relatively tight ringed, about 50~60 rpi, Yew that was noticeably less dense than some lower ring count Yew I had.
Hey, Marc
How did you go about assessing the yew stave's density?
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Sorry Keenan, I didn't cut the trees. The color of the wood was the same but the denser, lower ring count wood had a different look to it.
Adam. It was easily apparent just by picking them up. Now I don't know if there is any merit to this but I did read at some point that Yew had both male and female trees and that the female tree made better bows
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"Now I don't know if there is any merit to this but I did read at some point that Yew had both male and female trees and that the female tree made better bows"
This has been argued over the years, and still there is no merit .
I say the better wood grows way up in the mountains, just like those big Brown Trout. ;)
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i pulled in a good half dozen 6 foot logs yesterday, but even if they were taken from a high hillside where this nice man logs, i don't think the hills on vancouver island are high enough to really count.
BUT! Soon i am moving to the mainland with my new wife, and i'll be close to the coastal mountains of bc where i can hike and pull down some high elevation yew...next year or so i'll post in this thread again, and put in what i see.
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I don't really have an opinion as to which is better wood, i.e. high vs low ring count. As far as I'm concerned all yew staves deserve to be bows.
How's that bow coming along Keenan?
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It's still stronger then I can pull ::) But I think you could probably do it now. ::) ;D
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gordon could do it, he's damn strong!
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this is some thing i was thinking about when i went to bed last night...i just told keenan about my piece of yew wood and it had 43 rings per inch..and i was thinking man that small tree that is about 4-5 inch's around is older than i am...so,i was wondering how old some of the old growth yew trees i have see really are...in away it would be cool to count the rings on some of the older trees BUT i like seeing them still standing and making seeds for years to come..john
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Yes, it makes you stop and think, doesn't it?! I didn't make a yew bow until I'd been making bows for about 5 years, as the thought of ruining something that is 100 years old was rather intimidating. Yew certainly deserves our respect.
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on the subject of ring count, I remember being shocked when doing the interview with Rose City on cedar shafts, Jerry told me that you cant go by ring count to determine the stiffness, spine of the wood. He said that through the years of making arrow shafts, he can determine where the highest spine trees come from in his area, and has nothing to do with ring count. it has more to do with the topography, soil, and wind in that area. so now we can be confused further ??? when I am checking out a yew stave to make a bow out of, I go for the heavier or more dense feeling stave, since these have yielded the best bows for me, if the stave is real light, the bow sometimes broke. maybe not initially, but eventually failed. I have read about the old time bowyers marking the uphill side of the stave, or the top of a limb, to make most use of the tension side of the tree. we may never know the truth, but is is sure fun experimenting ;D
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I have read about the old time bowyers marking the uphill side of the stave, or the top of a limb, to make most use of the tension side of the tree. we may never know the truth, but is is sure fun experimenting
When it comes to tension woods such as vine maple, there is most certainly truth to this. As for yew, I don't know.
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I agree with the wind causing a tree to grow stronger, however that is also evident in the ring structure of a tree. A limb is an exaggerated example of a tree building natural structure to compensate for force. If you cut a limb growing horizontal to the ground (gravity) the tightest closest ring structure in on the top. The bottom of the limb builds in more mass to compensate for the compresion. But the tension strength of the top of the limb is built by a tight dense ring structure. Dave the bow that you I showed you today from that juniper limb that we got is about as dense of juniper as I have ever seen. (top of limb, tight ring count) I think the force scenario is accurate, but is also evident by ring structure.
Why eles would the tension side of the tree be considered the best. As you said most of the old timers marked the uphill or tension side of the tree or limb. The prospective on arrow spine is great food for thought but not sure that strong spine arrow wood equals good bow. I had a piece of juniper that felt very strong, but just would not bend and exploded when pushed. Now that all our heads are spinning ::)
This has been a very thought provoking thread. As we know that other wood types have different degrease of strengths. It might be neat to see some more threads covering diffrent wood on the same subject. A few years ago I did some comparison with high elevation fir and low elevation fir to see if elevation changes could turn a poor bow wood into an acceptable bow wood. Though I don't believe that elev. can overcome genetic tendencies of the wood it did make it stronger due to growing conditions.
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even in the light of the ring count on arrows not being a factor to determine spine, I still gravitate to the thin ringed yew for bows. the old addage "the tougher the life, the stonger one is" seems to make sense with yew. if it struggles and fights to survive, the stonger it must become. but, sometimes I get it just as it is getting ready to give up :o ??? I guess the main question is "what would Yoda say???? ;D
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"what would Yoda say???? ;D
"Bend it you will!"
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"what would Yoda say???? ;D
"Bend it you will!"
"break it you might"
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if dave can find green yew..he will feel the force. ;D..john
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"what would Yoda say???? ;D
"Bend it you will!"
"break it you might"
dude, you are hilarious!
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Break it I have ;D
I hope Lulyn doesn't see this thread, She been calling me Yoda for a while,,, something about going around in the woods sniffing trees and running your hands up and down them makes people think your weird or something. ::)
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i pulled in a good half dozen 6 foot logs yesterday, but even if they were taken from a high hillside where this nice man logs, i don't think the hills on vancouver island are high enough to really count.
We could have brought back some nice fence post also lol.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Ruckster/P1020336.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Ruckster/P1020343.jpg)
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dude where you at? i'm coming over
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LOL! I was there with ya loading these babies up in my truck.
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OH ok!!!!
EVERYONE, I want to introduce Mario, or Mar. He's new to bowmaking and he lives near me. Contacted me two weeks ago asking for a stick of yew...So now he's got two big logs and i have got the rest.
You split them suckers, yet? Find Timo's Split-Along? Dude, get cracking!
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those look like good logs...i should get on over to Sage's house with a bottle of tb2 and glue the ends i guess...lazy, shortbow maker. We cut the logs 6 feet plus or minus...be good to get a few that long...supersized longbows hurt my back to tiller, though.
Mar, you read the yoda stuff? God these guys are funny.
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OH ok!!!!
EVERYONE, I want to introduce Mario, or Mar. He's new to bowmaking and he lives near me. Contacted me two weeks ago asking for a stick of yew...So now he's got two big logs and i have got the rest.
You split them suckers, yet? Find Timo's Split-Along? Dude, get cracking!
Hey everyone...awesome site.
Check out my thread radius about them logs. I didn't want to hog this thread.
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those are some dandy logs!!! they look real clean and straight. although you never know until you split them. I have had straight looking logs corkscrew when split. post pics of split staves! dont show them to Keenan though, :-X he starts foaming at the mouth and doing weird mumbling and cant stop his hands from moving like he is drawknifing. some people would think that was strange. but we here know better. ;D
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Now that you mention it there is a kind of strange resemblance between Keenan and Yoda :o
Those are some reallly nice logs Mar - you outa be able to coax a few good bows out of that.
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oh my... nice yew indeed. :o
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man,you guys sure do pick on the short guy alot..i called him last night to see if we could do some bow work on sat...he didn't answer..i think couldn't reach the phone.. >:D ;D..john
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Gordon, Get you I will >:D
John, Help you I will. ;D
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Gordon, Get you I will >:D
John, Help you I will. ;D
is that the best comeback you got? ???
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you know Dave...short,small brain. ;D ;D....i better watch myself...i have to go see him Saturday...are you coming over...john
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Hey there primitive archer guys,
Keenan asked me to interact, because I hardly make any comments. Okay....so here it is. You guys have the nickname thing all messed up for Keenan, we have been referring to him as OBE ONE, not Yoda. Even though, Yoda is a short, wisdom filled master and really old...........Hmm....maybe you guys are on to something. Oh ya, and the tweety cakes thing.......I really like it, but Yoda, I mean OBE ONE doesn't. Even though he is quite the natural twitter-er!
As usual, I love all your posts, you guys (and gals) are an absolute riot. I am glad you are such a positive outlet for my bow making addicted husband. Blessings, LuLyn P. S. this is for Pat B, fyi OBE ONE will be visiting the dermatologist next week. Maybe he will have some cool "ear" pics to share with you. :) Lulyn
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AHHHHH,that is great lulyn...tell TOO TALL WE LOVE HIM...john
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sorry john, I wont be around this weekend, going back to the cabin to trench lines for the wind generator. LuLyn....where did the "tweety-cakes" come from??? I have heard you call him Obe-won, but I thought you were saying O-wee-one ??? ::) I will leave that one alone.... :-[ ;D I think he would like Yoda better...
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Hey LyLyn, it's great to see you post here. Please give Yoda, er I mean, Obe my best.