Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Dakotian on September 15, 2009, 10:51:00 pm
-
I haven't been here in a while as I have been up to other things...like college.
Over the summer I have been collecting and expirimenting with various native plants with interessting medicinal properties. I find myself wondering if somehow a particuarily poisonious plant such as hemlock could be used to make an effective poison arrow or blowgun dart. If possible, does anyone know how such a thing could be done, and would whatever is killed by it still be safe to eat?
-
Welcome back to PA, Dakotian. It has been a while. College! :o ...and how are your sisters?
The Cherokee used blow guns. I don't know it they used poison on their darts or not.
I believe that most of the poisons used by native cultures were either neurotoxins or anti coagulants. You will have to be extremely careful with either. I'm sure there are plant poisons in the US but I have no knowledge of them. Someone will speak up with a more helpful answer for you.
-
I think Homeland Security just joined the PA forum.....
-
I am not aware of american indians using poison tips, however the south american cultures used poison tipped darts and arrows, there are some species of frogs that contain neurotoxins in their skins, and the most well known poison is curare, a plant poison
-
Tobacco............ :o
Boil it, strain it, boil it down to a thick paste and put it on the tips. It is as deadly as it comes.
-
Tobacco............ :o
Boil it, strain it, boil it down to a thick paste and put it on the tips. It is as deadly as it comes.
nicotine overdose >:D
thatll take care of anyones nic fits
-
Nicotiana sulfate is a very powerful pesticide. Probably what Justin was talking about.
-
would that process poison the meat?? or would you still be able to eat it?
-Ky
-
There have been numerous groups across the world (Africa, Asia and South America) that used it on darts and/or arrows so I don't think it ruins the meat. If the meat was poison, the people would have died and the info wouldn't have been passed down. It could be mixed with wolfsbane, opium or many other ingredients. Don't be fooled though, it is deadly by itself. People have used tobacco poultice over the years also. But when the juice containing high grade nicotine and saliva was scraped from pipes and used, many people were poisoned.
They also sprinkled tobacco into water to numb the fish.
If that isn't enough info, read "African ethnobotany: poisons and drugs : chemistry, pharmacology, toxicology " By Hans Dieter Neuwinger
-
I'm not sure of any plant based poisons that would work for that here in North America. I tried making some poison years ago from milkweed, but was disappointed with the results. Now I have heard about boiling cigarette tobacco, then concentrating the water until you have a thick, gummy paste. Nicotine in its pure form is actually a very potent poison, but in miniscule amounts it's an addictive stimulant.
Anyway, I don't think that the poison will make the meat toxic to eat. Cooking usually destroys the poison compounds, though I did see one video on youtube where the Bushmen of Africa cut out the meat that was nearest to the entrance wound.
I guess you'd just have to experiment with it....
-
In the past an old fish numbing toxin was used in Florida. Old crackers would take the seed pods from Wax Myrtles and put them in a burlap sack. Then they would smash the seed pods and weight it with a rock and throw it in a crrek without current or a small pond.
-
I guess you'd just have to experiment with it....
Hmmmm, expiriment with poison. should give life an interesting new twist.....or a sudden end. :P ;D
-
thats right recurve...but then again, isn't that what life is all about??
-
Ricin. It is in castor beans, and black eyed susans, also known as rosary bead seeds. Nothing to take lightly. Use a double layer of rubber gloves. But I do not know if it would also poison the meat. Mix it with dmso, and you have a nasty product. >:D I don't think I would mess with it. in fact I highly reccomend you don't mess with it. Not only is it dangerous, but highly illegal. Nor would I eat the meat. eat the meat. ;) It is also illegal to use poison arrows, and or darts. Cyanide occurs naturally in native plants, and fruits. But again, I would not mess with it. 8)
Wayne
-
Growing around here poison Hemlock is the most poisonous plant I know of. It was certainly effective enough to kill Socrates for being annoying. Concerning it.
"The most important and toxic of these is coniine, which has a chemical structure similar to nicotine.[12] Coniine is a neurotoxin, which disrupts the workings of the central nervous system and is toxic to humans and all classes of livestock.[13] Coniine causes death by blocking the neuromuscular junction in a manner similar to curare; this results in an ascending muscular paralysis with eventual paralysis of the respiratory muscles which results in death due to lack of oxygen to the heart and brain. Death can easily be prevented by artificial ventilation until the effects have worn off 48–72 hours later. Ingestion of Poison Hemlock in any quantity can result in respiratory collapse and death. [14] For an adult the ingestion of more than 100 mg of coniine (approximately 6 to 8 fresh leaves, or a smaller dose of the seeds or root) may result in fatality."
So if I can make this paste out of it, it sould work. If I ever intend to use it, and that's a significant "if".
So Stickbender, you're telling me that the Black Eyed Susan that is sitting on my shelf as a medicinal plant does in fact contain a deadly poison?...interessting.
-
Dakotian, not the black eyed susan flower. This a vine that grows down here, (Florida) and it has little seed pods, with small field pea shaped seeds, that are bright red, with a bright black end cap on one end. I don't the castor bean grows in your area either. It was once a weed that grew all over the place down here. Has a elongated seed, graysih, brown, in a spiny seed pod. Some of the poisonous plants, the poison is more concentrated in the roots. Yeah, the Hemlock is nasty stuff, and not a pleasant death. The ricin has no antidote. They were supposedly working on one, but never heard anymore about it. Also the oleander, has a toxin, called digitalis, and it is used as a heart medicine, but large enough quantities, can be fatal. Even getting the sap on your hands, can cause palpitations, tachycardia, and irregular rhythms. Always wear gloves when cutting, or messing with that plant. Or any plant as far as that goes. ;)
Wayne
-
Deer could possibly eat hemlock without ill effects. I've seen them eat mushrooms that would kill me and they eat poison ivy, would you?.
-
huh. there are alot more poisons in North America than i thought.
-
Now,,,, Here's another thought; Why not learn tracking skills, blood trailing, and shot placement. The recovery rate would probally be better.
The large game in Africa that were shot with drugged points still took days of tracking before they fell over. And they didn't drop dead in the parking lot of Wal-Mart with an arrow stuck in it. ::)
-
Well the study of poisons is an old one, there are many uses, in fact the study of all medicinals is also a study of poisons because what can make you well can also poison you, it's a matter of dosage and administration, I abhhor all the censorship and restrictions we see in our society, this is a very useful subject and you cannot study the art of poisons without studying health, they are 2 sides to the same coin, and as survivalists, as we are on this forum it is very relevant:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Well it's a good thing I'm not hunting larg game in Africa...next to a Walmart. I would consider my expirments a success if I could kill a bunny or a squirrel with a poisoned dart, that's all I've ever been able to effectively kill with traditonal equipment anyway. Not to mention it makes a very interessting answer to the question "So what have you been up to lately?" And I reckon there are very few people who on this forum who wouldn't want to try this just for the sake of tring it.
Pat, I'm sure deer are indeed able to eat such things, but I'm so sure they didn't have their regrets afterwards.
-
Very interesting AND disturbing all at the same time ;). How would you know if it was the dart/arrow or the poison that caused death?
-
Keep in mind that it is very illegal to hunt with poisoned arrows. A squirrel that you can easily kill without poison isn't worth going to jail over. Plus, what happens when you accidentally poke yourself with one of your arrows?
-
I got my eyes checked the other day and while waiting i picked up the magazine (Cowboys and Indians) they had an article with some excerts from old publications about NA's poisoning arrows with stuff like yucca plants and such... Mostly a quite silly article. I guess whoevever wrote the article didnt know that yucca is not harmful. Interesting what people thought was factual back then.
-
If you drink too much tequilla yucca can be poisonous! ;D
-
you can build up a tolerance for it, Pat. ;D
-
Just don't mention any names, and never admit to anything, and you should be fine:)
-
I guess "too much" is a relative statment but I have exceeded my poison limit a few times...but not lately! ;D
-
Apparently the symptoms of yucca poisoning include waking up in trailer parks...;D
-
Do you know that for a fact? ::)
-
O:) O:) O:) ::) ::) ::)
-
Trailer Parks? It is still immensely better than waking up in Juarez! :o :o;D ;D
Wayne
-
Don't pet the donkey.... :o
-
There is a book I once read. I think it's called 'A sporting chance; unusal method of hunting'. you should be able to find it on amazon or alibris. In the book the author details how he hunts with bommarangs, bolas, bows, crossbows, cheetahs! etc. there is also a chapter where he hunts deer, in North America, with a blow gun and poisoned darts.
The last chapter is titled "Hunting the most dangerous game of all" :o
An entertaining and insightful book
-
Yep, amazon have it . A Sporting Chance, Usual Methods of Hunting . by Daniel P. Mannix.