Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: radius on July 27, 2009, 11:57:42 am

Title: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 27, 2009, 11:57:42 am
hey guys

i've been doing a buildalong on this bow, but hope ya don't mind i post it here too, for those folks that don't visit the other section...

here's what it started out like:

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture002.jpg)

a big, knotty log


and here's how it looks now

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture165.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture166.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture180.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture181.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture182.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture171.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture170.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture173.jpg)


The essence of a holmegaard design is a  non-bending outer tip that acts like a lever:  it reduces string angle and prevents the stacking effect.   THe knots at the ends of the limbs helped me with that, although each limb LOOKS quite different from the other.  I'd love your input.

Radius
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: Keenan on July 27, 2009, 12:06:04 pm
Nice looking bow Radius, Just a word of caution on those tips. I noticed that the string groves are past the wood part of the limb. This will put full force on the glue joint at full draw and sometimes will cause failure. I had one let go at full draw that was very similar. Next time you might run the wood out longer to give more support. ;)
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: GregB on July 27, 2009, 01:14:31 pm
Very nice! Looks like a lot of work went in to get it to the point you're now at. ;)
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: DanaM on July 27, 2009, 01:25:47 pm
Looks like a nice bow but it doesn't look like a holmegaard ??? How about a front view picture?

Well done eh :)
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 27, 2009, 09:04:08 pm
Thanks guys for the advice and comments. 

Dana, i know it doesn't look like a STANDARD holmegaard, but then it's not a board bow.  Because of the knots at the tips, the tips do not conform to a normal image of what we think a holmie should look like.  But they do thicken and narrow (the key) and so they don't bend.

this was a toughie
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 27, 2009, 09:20:40 pm
here are two pics of the front profile

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture184.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture185.jpg)

You can see how the tips narrow considerably.

I began the lever-tip action at 11" from the original end of the bow.
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 27, 2009, 09:26:54 pm
Keenan:  i can't believe you said that.  I trimmed off the extra wood under the groove because it looked bulky !   With the big knots and the extra wood around them, i was trying to reduce tip mass as much as i could.  You say you've had them let go?
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: JustAim on July 27, 2009, 09:50:53 pm
Well, l said it over at the How-To section and l'll say it again. Great looking bow ;D
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: Parnell on July 27, 2009, 10:07:21 pm
Heya Radius,

I'm really liking how clear it is to see the grain of the wood and how you worked it.  I like the bow's profile and the character.  It's interesting for me to compare the info I've read in TBB2 with what I'm seeing here.  The cross-secton in the book with your original stave outline, in particular.  The more I do this the more I like simple bow finishes.

You create interesting stuff, it's fun to watch what your up to.

Parnell
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 27, 2009, 10:49:04 pm
well thanks, Parnell! that's a great compliment.

i looked alot at the "ancient european bows" for this one.  I really wanted to step down the back and leave the sapwood raised, and what i found is that you can shape that final layer of "extra ring" on the bow just by sanding it.  I'm sure it wouldn't change the tiller significantly.  Fortunately for me, most of the yew i got lately has badly checked sapwood.  I am working on a longbow now, with flatbelly, and after that i have a shorter recurve in mind...all heartwood, cuz the sapwood is lame.

What i can't do is handle wraps.  I'm totally at a loss.  If i can't cut in a shelf, i like to shoot off my knuckle.  i'm gonna try wrapping this with some 1/8" cotton rope that i found today...dye it some dark brown or so...but i might just be shooting off a glove...
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: Parnell on July 27, 2009, 11:16:17 pm
Yup, the sideview seeing the sapwood, where it appears to be running down and the knots.  So there isn't one growth ring on the back- just where the bending is happening?
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 27, 2009, 11:24:00 pm
well, everyone says with yew you don't have to follow one ring, so although i mainly did that, it's not perfect. 

If you could see the bow in your hands, you could follow the rings as the grow further and further up the limb from the sapwood handle...you would see that the back of the bending limbs is one solid growth ring, mainly... it just has some decorations!

 So i tried to shape the ring above it with sandpaper.  See how she holds up.  The knots are totally solid wood.  They all cracked, the 3 big ones and a small one.  I put CA in there, and good to go.

It doesn't bend perfectly.  This was a real challenge, and two weeks worth of work every night and weekends with handtools.  I didn't wanna botch it!  But i'm pretty happy with it.
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: Parnell on July 27, 2009, 11:46:14 pm
You know, I was very interested in following the thread you came up with and the heavy responses about the sculpting aspect of bow making and it's pursuit.  Did you start out looking for perfection?  I haven't made a bow yet that I've sanded perfectly smooth and taken out all the little things that make the bow...the bow.  I don't know if I want to do that.  I wonder how many people here are looking for perfection in what they make and I wonder who takes the most pleasure from what they've done?
Good stuff, man.   Puff puff, pass. ;D

Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 28, 2009, 12:07:24 am
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture176.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture178.jpg)

Parnell, i always try to do the best i can at my creations.  And that varies, sometimes my best ain't much.  This bow is special to me, though, for a few reasons.  It's the first bow i've made in a good year.  I brought the wood home from the bush myself (what a chore that was!).  I imagined the flatbow inside the log even as i picked it up for the first time.  Like we talked about in that other thread:  my imagination and the wood started to work together right away.  This is only half the log, there's another bow in there, or two,  i can't remember what it looks like.  To take something from rough to fine like that, through perseverance and art, is very fun for me.  And i do try to make it perfect, but i always blow it.  The inlays are terrible.  The arrow-strike is way oversized.  The runes inlaid in the tips are not exactly the same.  It doesn't bend quite right because of the multitudes of knots.  But man i cannot wait to take a deer with it this season.  I cannot wait!
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: majsnuff on July 28, 2009, 12:46:57 am
You are a brave soul. Those knotts along the edges of the limbs would make me real nervous. Great job. I admire your skill.
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: AKAPK on July 28, 2009, 02:33:58 am
What Kinda food Are ya gonna get widit there Radius?
I can't do such a thing here, I just liked making Bows and giving them away kinda.
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 28, 2009, 02:49:11 am
gonna get deer

food plus materials ok

this bow is for u pk
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: Keenan on July 28, 2009, 03:10:33 am
Radiius, sorry I didn't mean to alarm you or even try to over critique. It was just a word of caution from an experience of something that happened to me once. I had a real nice bow that was Juniper with halibut backing and it had long laburnum tips. I was pushing the limits getting them as narrow as possible. But in the process had removed some of the belly wood ,making the string groves end up being past the end of the wood when at full draw. I was confident in it and had shot it many times then went to full draw and she let lose. The string angle pulling at full draw acted like a fulcrum point on the end of the wood because it wasn't pulling into the wood but rather off the end and the glue joint failed. It sprung back so hard that it snapped in half right at the handle the opposite way.
  You have a very fine looking weapon and being yew you will probably be fine. I wish you all the luck on your hunting adventures, keep us posted on the hunting forum ;)
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: DanaM on July 28, 2009, 06:32:01 am
Thanks for the front view pics makes all the difference to see the bow from all angles,
I like to see the front view so I can compare it to the tiller. To me the two are interrelated.
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 28, 2009, 10:35:04 am
Keenan:  no worries, man, i wasn't that alarmed:  it was just ironic...if you look at my buildalong for this one, you'll see how the tips evolved...I wonder what kind of glue you  used on that one that broke?  I used tb2.   Fingers crossed!

Dana, glad i could oblige.

I realized i didn't put in any specs about this bow at all.

63" tip to tip, 62" ntn. 

Bending Limbs:  16"

handle:  4" + 2" each way for the fades

Back:  "almost" a single growth ring, with traces of a ring above it left for design...the back is CROWNED

Belly:  flat

Draw Weight:  approx. 58# @ 28"

Tips:  Rosewood with yew inlays...the tips were shaped to imitate a slight recurve

Finish:  Tru-Oil

Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: AKAPK on July 29, 2009, 04:00:42 am
What do you mean "this bow is for u pk"? ??? I was just wondering what Kind of Game there was up there.
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: Marc St Louis on July 29, 2009, 09:57:56 am
Nice bow Scott
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 29, 2009, 10:28:18 am
oh nothing PK...a couple weeks ago i was posting all these pics of yew wood i'd brought home, and you wrote "please make a bow"...so i made one...voila!

Marc...thanks.
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: OldBow on July 29, 2009, 02:11:01 pm
Very cool. Doesn't yew make for the most attractive wood? Bookmarked, too, for July Self Bow of the Month
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 29, 2009, 08:58:12 pm
thanks oldbow, yeah i love the yew...this is the 2nd yew bow i've made...third is on the way!
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: AKAPK on July 29, 2009, 10:16:27 pm
Thats Cool, Mind started wandering :)Bow looks pretty cool
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 29, 2009, 10:26:08 pm
thanks PK...i like your stuff too...the way you paint them is beyond my talents
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 30, 2009, 11:32:32 am
You know, I was very interested in following the thread you came up with and the heavy responses about the sculpting aspect of bow making and it's pursuit.  Did you start out looking for perfection?  I haven't made a bow yet that I've sanded perfectly smooth and taken out all the little things that make the bow...the bow.  I don't know if I want to do that.  I wonder how many people here are looking for perfection in what they make and I wonder who takes the most pleasure from what they've done?
Good stuff, man.   Puff puff, pass. ;D



parnell, why not bring this question up in that other thread about the imagination and the wood? 

Me, i know that the bow just needs to shoot:  bend, and not break.  But i like em pretty, too...
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 30, 2009, 02:57:10 pm
I was pushing the limits


that's all bowmaking is, as far as i'm concerned...pushing the limits until the object at hand conforms to the style and function you intend for it...i bet bowyer's as a breed are just that kind of people:  always stretching the envelope...

radius
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: Del the cat on July 30, 2009, 04:41:31 pm
Hey, sweet bow, I recently made 'Mr Wobbly' just to show how bad a stave you can make a bow of.
I'm a bit unsure of all this 'doesn't look like a Holmgaard' etc...c'mon guys, that Holmgaard is just ONE bow do you think the bowyer who made it did every bow like that???
I think we need to be open to all 'ideas' whilst remembering that every bow is unique.
Find the bow in the stave...as Bart Simpson might say..'be of the stave'  ;)
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp195/Del_the_Cat/wobbly.jpg)
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp195/Del_the_Cat/knot-1.jpg)
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp195/Del_the_Cat/wobblydraw.jpg)
BTW, the shortening toggle on the tillering string is a good trick, just a piece of plywood with two holes in it, allows the string to be progressively shortened, and can even be shot (just for test purposes, if you are as impatient as I am  :o)
Del
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on July 30, 2009, 06:04:37 pm
del,

i agree with you about, say, not letting the historical examples we have bind down our creativity (to paraphrase, but i think we understand each other)...yeah, you had some terrible knots and kinks in that stave, but looks like you're shooting it...

good one
Title: Re: yew holmegaard
Post by: radius on August 22, 2009, 07:12:23 pm
new shots, showing height of weapon, slight recurve, and low string angle.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture148-1.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture149-1.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture150-1.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/yew%20holmegaard/Picture151-1.jpg)