Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: radius on July 08, 2009, 09:19:40 pm
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ok so i DID get some yew after all that trouble. Oy vey!
Question is: it's been on the ground god knows how long...or maybe ravenbeak knows...and the cut ends feel dry. Is it too early to try it? I don't know. What the hell do i know: i thought the cedar was yew! Anyway, if i bandsaw it down into staves, is it safe to fast dry it in an air current and so on? I guess it is...any tips or suggestions?
radius
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i wouldnt use a band saw to turn it into staves,it wont follow the longitudinal grain
split it by hand,then you can lay a profile and reduce with the bandsaw and let dry
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spoil sport!
hand-splitting...hm...
i just hand split 11 logs into almost 50 sticks and my landlord gave me some funny looks...also, i think i can eke one more stave out of the pieces if i use a bandsaw...
tim, you get my pm?
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Tim is right. You will get better staves by splitting out your logs. I found years ago if I got too greedy or lazy with bow wood it would turn on me and bite the heck out of me. ;D
You can reduce your stave to floor tiller stage(4" of tip movement) without damaging or over stressing the wood. From there it will dry quicker.
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okay okay
One of my yew staves, which i found on the ground, has some natural split in it already, i'll follow that...
this'll be a first!
radius
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I use a bandsaw to reduce staves all the time - I've never had a problem doing it that way.
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I use a bandsaw to reduce staves all the time - I've never had a problem doing it that way.
yes but not for splitting the log into staves
after you have a stave split from a log,like i said then you can cut the profile etc with a band saw
but to saw a log into staves,in my opinion not a good idea.
but i never have good ideas so what do i know lol
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I use a bandsaw to reduce staves all the time - I've never had a problem doing it that way.
yes but not for splitting the log into staves
after you have a stave split from a log,like i said then you can cut the profile etc with a band saw
but to saw a log into staves,in my opinion not a good idea.
but i never have good ideas so what do i know lol
Tim,
That's exactly how i feel! I mean christ i just carried home 11 big logs and split them into staves and they are cedar! I live in an apartment and i'm manufacturing ranch-style fence material! I have so many bad ideas it's almost shocking.
BUT I do have a few little yew staves now, so i'm gonna split the suckers and then trim em like i was told.
radius
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I watched RyanO lay one out with a bandsaw in about 20 minutes at Pappy's Classic this year. I have it in my shop. And it is snakey.
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I use a bandsaw to saw (small) logs up into staves because sometimes the wood will twist if split. I realize that it is commonly held that you shouldn't do that because of the possiblity of grain run-off. But I do it anyway, and I have never had a problem. So long as you don't violate the back, I think you're fine. Nothing against splitting a log, I just hate losing good wood to a bad twist. Of course, some logs are too large to use a bandsaw and I'll split those.
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Gordon, that's what i was thinking...with a small diameter log, maybe splitting would rob me of a stave i could have garnered by judicious bandsawing. Only trouble is, i don't have a sturdy enough bandsaw to cut yew. It's just a little ryobi. So i'll split em, and then trim em with that thing, and all should go well.
Check out my new thread in "Anything Else"...now that i know what yew trees look like, i realize i live in a yew wilderness, a paradise of bow wood! God, i need a truck!
radius
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The thing you have to consider when using a saw to stave out a log is that not only does wood have vertical grain but also radial rays that can move from side to side. by splitting a stave you are almost assured to stay within the boundaries. once you touch it with a saw you may or may not render the wood useless. I have used a circular saw to run one side of a stave but only if I am positive that there is no twist, and even then I've been wrong. As far as far as roughing out a stave I almost always use a bandsaw if there is a lot of wood to remove and I go SLOWLY. I try to stay at least 3/4" larger than where I want to start before I floor tiller them though. As far as drying the more surface area you have "opened" to the air the less a piece has to work to dry out. and the faster you can force dry it. I've never worked with yew so I'm not sure how well it does or how long it takes to dry.
for what it's worth, just my 1/2 cents worth. (I don't have enough knowledge to offer 2 cents!)
Mark
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For what it's worth, I've built about 30 bows from logs (of various species) that I have sawed into staves and never had one fail as a result. While that may not be a statistically significant number, it does make me question the widely held notion that sawing logs may render the staves useless. On the other hand, maybe I've just been very lucky...
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well, Gordon, in your case, i think skill makes luck...
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here's the staves from three logs i split this morning. The wood was old, down god or ravenbeak knows how long. In places, the sapwood was rotten and spalted and split. But the heartwood is good, and on a couple staves the sapwood is good through as well. Four of these staves have wicked twist, about 60 degrees. And huge knots. Look em over and tell me what you think. Can i started tillering these right away?
Here are the 4 staves from the largest, twisted log. You can see the twist pretty clearly.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture048.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture050.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture051.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture052.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture053.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture054.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture055.jpg)
There are a couple VERY gnarly staves here. But a couple that won't be too hard...i just need to steam the suckers straight...
The next two logs were straighter, and smaller, and so only yielded 4 staves in total. They are pretty good, i think most of the big knots will be outside the bows.
And i want to say: splitting does seem superior to bandsawing, as the wood naturally splits on the grain and preserves wood around big knots. On the other hand, you could just let the bandsaw wander with the grain ...
Look how bad the rot is in this one...sapwood's coming right off.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture057.jpg)
But look how nice this one is:
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture058.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture059.jpg)
This one will be fun to make, too...but will i have to steam that bend out? Or can i save it so that my arrow is naturally more center-shot?
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture060.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture061.jpg)
All in all, not a bad take for a guy with no truck, living in an apartment. I have 5 more logs 80" long or so waiting for me in the bush, and my boss says he'll pick em up for me next week and bring em to my place. I should head out there and split em ahead of time so i don't have to do it here.
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Please make a bow :)
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And keep posting pics Scott. I wanna see one of you and a log on that bus ;D. Naw, I'm kinda enjoying keeping up with it all - carry on ;)..
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Looks like some fun yew. Lots of good bows there with character. 8)
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thanks for the encouragement guys...and PK, i will make a bow pretty soon...my woman's work visa (she's british) expires tomorrow, and this morning she went to vancouver to fly home...i'll have plenty of time to bend wood.
How about the twist? Should i steam that out, or go with it?
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You don't need to worry about the twist until at least floor tiller time. By then you have a lot less wood to heat. Leave the tips and handle areas wide until your first low brace. You might be able to just remove the appropriate wood then to get the string lined up.
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good thinking
These staves will be challenging. The clearest ones are the shortest, and the longest ones are the knottiest, with a lot of sapwood removal ahead of me. This wood is definitely ground-cured...hard...
I've never dealt with this kind of twist before, since most of my bows are laminated hickory/osage of different styles. can i get rid of it by steaming the handle section primarily? Or do i need a stovepipe to steam the entire thing?
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You will have to wait until you reduce the stave and see exactly the twist is. Then you can isolate the heat to the area needed. If the wood is wet, now would be a good time to steam it. It will not be affected by the moisture from the steam and will actually help remove moisture from the wood to a certain extent. I would still seal the back before steaming. Shellac works well even under steaming conditions.
The sapwood looks thin enough so you shouldn't have to remove any with a deep bellied or radiused belly bow. Just carefully remove the bark and go from there.The less you touch the back, the better. Mother Nature makes better backs than we can! ;)
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Okay...
Thursday i went to a local provincial park and found lots of yew trees. One of them was big and dead and standing. I wanted its wood, but i didn't wanna chop or saw it down. But i went there this evening and just rocked the thing back and forth until it fell over. Was pretty easy: as you'll see, the tree had a massive rotten core at the base.
Here it is standing up. It's about 25 feet tall.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture063.jpg)
Here it is laying on the ground.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture064.jpg)
I sawed it in two places: one at 7 feet from the butt; the second 7 feet from that. 7 was the magic number, you'll see, because the top of the bottom piece is 7 inches across.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture065.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture066.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture067.jpg)
Now, HERE'S why i was able to push it over.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture068.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture069.jpg)
Here's the 2 sections split in half. Obviously the upper one in the tree was creamy while the butt only rendered 2 or 3 useable staves, and those shortened; one stave is as short as 50" or so.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture070.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture071.jpg)
This is the take. It doesn't take the third section of the tree, because it is a decent thickness for about 3 feet and then abruptly narrows, practically stepping down.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture064.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Picture073.jpg)
Hm...now, am i really gonna pack these 9 staves on the bus?
Remember, most of these staves are 80+ inches long!
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scott,
is that the tree down past the end of the pond? i was eyeing it two winters ago, it was dead.
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well...i wouldn't call it a pond. You go in a path near Ash Road, and turn right on the irvine path...yes it was dead...and dude, the staves are still up there, glued at the ends and just waiting...got a truck? I'll give you a couple of em. The wood is sound except where it is god-awful.
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car with a roof rack that has carried many a staves
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check out this face!
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/happyface.jpg)
That's me standing next to this tree not long before it fell.
O:)