Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: chasing crow on July 03, 2009, 10:26:08 am
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Hello all,
As a complete newbe, I have another question. I am working on a walnut shoot arrow shaft for my first attempt. I have seen numerous mentions of heat treating of shafts using a gas grill, but I can't recall reading of the actual mehtod. Any input or guidance as to sources of info?
Thanks,
Chasing Crow
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CC, When I work with sourwood I use my gas kitchen stove for heat straightening(usually with oil so not to scorch it). After I'm sure everything is good and straight I will start at one of the shoot and begin to heat it(without oil this time), rotating the shoot until it beginning to turn color, than work my way down the shoot until the entire shoot has been heat treated. Be careful at the far end because any moisture will come out as steam and can burn you. Once the shoots are tempered I let them rest on a flat surface for a few days at least before continuing to work them. This allows then to rehydrate.
I have not tried walnut shoots.
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Pat,
Thanks for the info. I will give it a try as soon as my burgers are off the grill this afternoon!
Chasing Crow
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Hi all, sorry for reviving an old thread, but was just wondering if it's wise/possible to heat treat arrows after they've already been fletched and points are put on? Would heating just the area between the point and fletchings work? I'm guessing most-likely not, but just wanted to ask in case it's not a stupid question afterall. ;D
Also, what type of oil should one use when heat treating? Do you even need oil when the shafts are already straight? Any heatsource would work, correct? Just as long as it slightly scorches the arrow, right? I've heard of putting them in the oven as well, are there any particular temp settings that go along with that, or will anything do? Thanks for any info!
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Yes, you can heat treat just the center of the shaft. It will make the shaft stiffer so it will change the spine. I only use oil when straightening wood but no oil when tempering(heat treating).
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Sure u can heat just the center and dont pop the whole thing fletching and all or it will be gone immediatly... possibley frying the whole shaft. A hot box will work if u dont have them fletched, a heat gun, an oven even a small torch. I have once lined them up in front of my fireplace. But its only my opinion...take care!
Russell
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Why would you want to try heat treating to change the spine? Sounds like a lot of trouble and guess work. Plus the potential of having an arrow blow from being over dry. It seems it would be easier to make another set of arrows with the appropriate spine.
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Not trying to change the spine, but they are getting really bendy after a few shoots and I was told they'd hold up better if heat treated.
A hot box will work if u dont have them fletched, a heat gun, an oven even a small torch. I have once lined them up in front of my fireplace
How about an electric stove, or since I just want the middle done...a candle? *shrugs*
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Why not lay them on a table and burnish them? And some hard wood shafts, you will constantly have to straighten. It's just the nature of the wood. That's why I shoot cane.
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Are you saying burnish as in rub them together or on a piece of wood? I'm really new to woodworking so don't really know. I'm up for any ideas that will help out, and I plan on doing it right on my next set of arrows, just don't want to start over with the ones I already have.
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I've found that with shoots straightening them every few days negates the need for heat for straightening. Further, in about 2 weeks they begin to hold any corrections you've done to them. Work it right and no head will be needed for straightening. I've never heat treated for the sake of heat treating. I have used heat for straightening. There's arrow info on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
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When I'm straightening hardwood shoot shafts I use oil to prevent scorching. Once the shafts are straight I will start at one end and heat until scorched(without oil) then move down the shaft doing the same. I do this for the color(camo) but it also tempers them. I use our gas kitchen stove for this. Be careful when you get near the far end. If any moisture is still in the shoot it will come out as steam and burn you. Also, after tempering, give the shafts a week or so to rehydrate before shooting. You can continus to build the arrows but they will be brittle until they rehydrate.
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So it's ok to fletch them and everything, just don't shoot them. Sounds reasonable. How do you go about heat straightening them? I've only just looked down the shaft and bent them accordingly, but after a few times they do get a little snaky. They shoot ok, they just aren't "straight as an arrow." If anyone is going to the Classic, I'd love to hook up with you for a few minutes to get a quick face-to-face explanation.
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I'll be at the Classic and shouldn't be hard to find. Bring some shoot shafts along with you and I'll show you how I do it. When straightening any shafts I start with the worst bends, straighten them and set the shafts aside to cool. If you try to straighten them all at once you will rebend what you have already straightened. I usually work 6 or so at one time but over a 3 or 4 day period.
None of my shoot or cane arrows are "straight as an arrow"! If they spin true with the points attached they should fly fine for you.
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I'll be at the Classic and shouldn't be hard to find. Bring some shoot shafts along with you and I'll show you how I do it. When straightening any shafts I start with the worst bends, straighten them and set the shafts aside to cool. If you try to straighten them all at once you will rebend what you have already straightened. I usually work 6 or so at one time but over a 3 or 4 day period.
None of my shoot or cane arrows are "straight as an arrow"! If they spin true with the points attached they should fly fine for you.
Thanks for the offer! Currently, the shafts I'm making are simple 5/16" dowel rods from Lowes. Would that still be applicable to what you are talking about? Once I learn more, I will be making my own, hopefully sooner than later.
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I have not tried it with store bought shafting. When I made POC arrows a little hand straightening was all it took with no heat. The should be plenty of shoot and cane shafts there at the Classicso I can show you on them if you want.
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I have not tried it with store bought shafting. When I made POC arrows a little hand straightening was all it took with no heat. The should be plenty of shoot and cane shafts there at the Classicso I can show you on them if you want.
Pat,
Sorry I wasn't able to get in touch with you at the Classic, but I did come home and try to heat treat my shafts over a stove, by holding them about 2-3in above, hands on either side, and slowly turning them. One thing I noticed was that when the arrows got pretty hot, they bent like no other. Is this normal, or should there be another method, like placing them in an oven or something?
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Just wondering if anyone else has more info on my above post. Thanks!
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I do all my arrow straightening over our stove top. Works well. Heating wood makes it very bendable.
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I do all my arrow straightening over our stove top. Works well. Heating wood makes it very bendable.
Do you have any sort of special technique when you're heating them over the stove? I was turning mine slowly, but they were bending pretty good. Should I have pulled while I was turning? I have one shaft that looks like it was bent around a tree lol.
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If you are just trying to do an overall straightening and not just in one place keep it moving as you spin the shaft. I have honestly never heat bent and cedar or other store bought shafts. I usually just do it with my hands without heat.
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If you are just trying to do an overall straightening and not just in one place keep it moving as you spin the shaft. I have honestly never heat bent and cedar or other store bought shafts. I usually just do it with my hands without heat.
Ok, I'm really not looking to heat-straighten, just heat treat them so they're a little stronger/stiffer. I was told once that I should heat treat them since they're prone to bending so much after shooting.
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I just boil a pot of water and put shafts over the pot with a piece of foil for a few minutes then simply bend them on my knee or lip of counter. I think i saw a hand held device u might be able to copy urself that straightens arrows...my 2 cents..
AA
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Most store bought shafts I've bought(POC and Ash) have kept their straightness well enough so only hand straightening was enough to keep them flying. Never heat treated any of them.
When I make shoot or cane arrows I do heat threat them to maintain straightness. Most of this shafting is quite crooked when harvested so they have to be taught to be straight and stay straight.
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If we are talking a hand cut of machine cut shafts then my first step is hand straightening. Second step is bend the shaft slightly the other way and burnish it. That;s usually more than enough. Sometimes I have to heat straighten but that means the shaft is pretty badly bent. Jawge
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Straightening with heat or steam is one thing, trying to temper the arrow with heat is asking for a lot of trouble and possible injury.
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Hey bud,
Was following the thread and maybe this will help ya out a little. First, I make hardwood arrow shafts and not shoots and all of mine are 3/8 diam......but, I can tell you that black walnut is real flexible (really felxible) on matter what form it's in. There is an ancient tool made for straightening shafts that ya can make your self. (attached some pics of mine)
The other fellas told ya right about straightening with their hands and no heat. But if you get a real bad bend, kink etc. this little tool will get it out ;D The tool makes heat by friction, burnishes and applies straightening pressure all at the same time, which is pretty cool.
The first pic is the back of the tool, the second is the belly of the tool and the third is how it goes on the shaft. You hold it like a frying pan and rub it quickly back and forth (creats heat and pressure) I'm sure ya can figure out how to use it. I check and straighten all my arrows before every session in the woods, I just consider it part of the "process". Hope this may be of some use to you. Just make it out of a "soft" wood, and make sure the knot-hole is big enough to get an arrow head through so you can use it after the arrow is made also.
Rich
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Thats a nifty device Rich Im going to have to ask u about it next time we talk! As far as the thread goes the original poster isnt the guy who keeps responding its ok I guess but the jumping around on someone elses thread can get confusing.
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Well I didn't think it prudent to start a whole new thread considering we're talking about more/less the same subject. Having two different posts about the same thing is confusing in my view. Apologies for confusing anyone