Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Scrub_buck on June 09, 2009, 11:33:40 am
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Hi all:
I got a couple of cured staves from the Howard Hill Classic last weekend and I am poised to try my first osage selfbow. I want to make this a build-along thread, but also I am going to be posting pictures as it comes together and asking a bunch of questions before the next step. I hope to tap into some of the wide knowledge and experience from the good folks here and learn as I go along.
The stave I will be working first has been taken to one ring and reduced some to a semi-bow-like shape. Yesterday, I drew a line down he center of the the back and took off some material from the belly to square-up the bow better while I decide which way I want to go as far as bow design goes. The width of the back is right at 2 inches for the complete length of the stave, however, it narrows some where the guy roughly band-sawed out one side of the handle area.
I will post a few pictures for you all to study. The 69.5" stave is very clean and it has some reflex already (a little more reflex on one side) and one limb is straight, while the other one has a slight 's' bend in it. I have found center and marked off 2 inches on either side of it for the handle placement. I was thinking about a 64-66" flatbow with a static handle. I currently shoot 50-55 pound longbows now, and have a 27.5 - 28" draw.
I would like some assistance from all of you during this project. If you have any thoughts or ideas, please feel free to speak up.
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Side view...
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The 's' bend.
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One side.
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The other side.
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From above.
Please feel free to express any thoughts and or advice. I did stretch a string from center of the end to center of the limb. The string gets close to the edges of the limb in the s-curve and is off to one side of the handle.
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That should have read "From center of one end to the center of the other end."
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I knew you wouldn't leave empty-handed ;D You certainly didn't waste any time getting started. Looks like a good candidate for a bow to me but then I'm still trying to finish my first bow. These guy can definately help with any questions. Hopefully I can get started on my hickory bow soon. Good luck man! Can't wait to see the end result.
Mark
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Hay Scrub:
It looks like you got your self a good Osage stave there.
Hint # 1 Always use a very sharp pencil when drawing bows out. I know that seems simple but it helps a lot.
Hint # 2 When drawing the width of the bow in the "S" curve make sure the width lines cross the center line at right angles.
Hint # 3 I saw in another post where you wanted to make the tips 1/2" wide. Many use 1/4" tips on Osage. I use 3/8".
Ask anything and post lots of photos
David
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David:
Thanks for the tips!
I have gotten the sides down to make it just over 1.5 inches on the widest part, to about an inch at the tips. I am slowly getting it to bow form.
Tell me about the handle and the string trick. When running a string from center-line to centerline at each tip, the string is off to one side of the handle and not centered. I can adjust where the strings come over the tips and get the string very close to center at the handle, but i am not over the crest of the limbs then. Torges advocated making the crest of the back of the limb center???
What is the preferred procedure there. I probably need to get the ends whittled down closer to limb shape before taking the material off the back and starting to floor tiller?
Thanks in advance!
Sandy
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Starting to take shape with some material removed from the sides...
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i have a piece of hickory that has almost that exact same snake to it ;D
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Leave your handle full width and your tips the width they are. They can be worked later and you may need the extra widths to make final adjustments. Don't worry about your string tracking at this point. Work on getting your limbs bending evenly and together beginning with floor tillering. Go slow as to not remove too much weight too early. After each wood removal, exercise your stave to help the change register.
As long as the string track isn't too far off, once you reach 8" of tip movement and both limbs bending evenly and together, low brace your bow to about a 4" brace height. At this point you can determine where and how much bending is required.
Do you have a heat gun? If not, it will be worth your while to get one. $20 or less at Lowe's.
Like David said, you have a nice looking osage stave there. You are in good hands here so ask any questions you may have and get to whittling!
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Nice looking stave,Wished I could have meet you down there,I seen the pile of Osage that Mike's dad had. Looks like you have a good start.One thing you may think about on a snaky stave as far as down the center.If you can get the handle and arrow pass in the right curve it will almost center shot it naturally.I try to always look at that before laying out the handle. You can tweak it into line after you get it bending as Pat has said.Keep us posted . :)
Pappy
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If you bought your stave from Mike McGuire(Yazoo on PA), he leaves the handle and fade area very long when he cuts the stave out...not knowing what the customer wants. You said you had laid out a 4" handle working off the center of the bow...how long did you make the fades? I've been making mine 1-1/2" long, measuring off the 4" handle on each side. If you leave them extremely long, you'll have less working limb on the finished bow.
Like Pappy mentioned, if you're just to one side with your string off the handle-center that would help determine your top limb. If you're right-handed, when holding the bow the string would need to be slightly left of center. If it is a lot off of center, you may want to pick a spot on one of the limbs to use dry heat and straighten is some.
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Are you sure the stave is dry? I picked out several for a friend at Twin Oaks , one had been cut a year ago. after I cut it down to a bow blank I put the moisture meter on it and found it to be 16%mc, not green but still a little wet. 12%mc on my pinless meter is cured where I live in Bama.
Mike's dad had some great wood at the Hill shoot. I helped a friend pick out several staves.
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I see that you followed the lateral or vertical grain in layout. That's excellent. If you leave the handle full width until at least the first stringing ( I wait until full draw), then you can shape the handle to string it better by shaping accordingly. If string is off to the left remove more wood from the left of the handle. If you leave the nocks wide you and the string is off to the left you can cut the nocks further on the left to bring the string towards center. Jawge
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This is all good advice.
The stave is looking good so far.
Question... What sort of tools do you have? Some tools are worth their weight in gold to the bower.
A well mounted shop vice is on the top of almost everones list.
Second is almost always a good scraper.
Third is usually a draw knife or a good wood rasp.
David
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A shot of the centered string alighnment. From center to tip to center to tip it tracks slightly off center at the handle area.
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Here's a shot of the limb reduction to 1/2 an inch.
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I have some more wood to remove. I just marked off the 4 inch handle area along with 2 inch fades on either side. I hope to get it all worked down by tomorrow eveing.
One limb has a little more reflex than the other, I guess a heat gun can even them up when the time comes. Any suggestions for heat guns? I am going to need to get one.
Ridgerunner:
I have a draw knife, a sharp hatchet, several Nicholson rasps and two ferrier rasps. The stave was bought already taken down to one ring, so I really haven't needed a scraper yet. I need to start finding one or two soon as its not going to be long before the tillering stage. Any suggestions?
Scrub
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i make my own scrapers out of metal just cut it about 3" by 3" and grind the edges with a hand grinder. i t works good and cheap you can also use glass but it will cut you if not wearing gloves.
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You can spend a lot of bucks on fancy scrapers but won't find anything that works better for course scraping than a half pair of scissors.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/bow%20making/buzzyscraper2-1.jpg)
They make an accusharp scissors sharpener. When my scissors scraper gets dull 4 or 5 passes with an accusharp scissors sharpener and they scrape wood off like crazy.
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Looking real good so far.
You can make a good scraper out of a saws-all blade. Just file the back edge flat and then roll a burr on it with the shaft of a large round screw driver.
A draw knife can also be used as a scraper. ( Much like a half pair of sissors) You have to turn it upside down and backwards but it will work quite well. Practice a bit on the belly side before you start your tillering.
David
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Thanks Eric for the advice on the sissors! No need to post any pictures now, but I have gotten the limbs to 3/8ths of an inch and they are bending pretty good now as I floor tiller. I have been scraping most of the back to try and maintain a pretty good small, but even crown. It has been taking a while, but so far so good!
I am basically doing it by feel and eye, making sure the limb feels nice and uniform throughout its length ... and they are still heavy, but are coming in. I flexed my #50 pound longbow yesterday in a floor tiller fashon, and man it doesn't take too much to get them to bend. I hope this a good way for a rookie to feel a comparison for trying to dial in around #60 on the stave so I can attempt to hit somewhere around #50 when its all said and done.
I have noticed that the limb with the most reflex has given some of that back while I have been flexing it against the floor. I am not bearing down on it with all my might, but I am putting some pressure on it.
Any comments are welcome!
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I got around to tapering my limbs today. Everyhting went well, and I have them reducing from 1.5 inches at the fades to 0.5 inches at the tips. It worked out super to taper them 0.1 inches every 3 inches.
I also have the thickness down to 0.4 inches thick for most of them limb. From half way the limb to 3 inches before and through the nock location I have it tapered up to 0.5 inches. That gives me some wood to play with at the tips to get the flex i want out on the ends.
I heated and bent the snakey limb using a heat gun and lard to get the string lined up almsot perfectly center of the handle. Worked like a charm.... Floor tillering says i have thge limbs bending well and I think I am on target for ~#50 draw when its finished. I hope so anyway, but anything shootable would be awesome!
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The other limb...
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The pulled string along the back...
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String orientation with the handle after the heat treatment.
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Do you know how dry it is? If it's given back reflex easily, it may need further drying. A hotbox is best, but a car/ attic can work as long as you keep an eye on the upper heat limits with a thermometer.
Since ya got a heat gun,you may want to add more reflex before tillering more. My first staves were probably not dry enough = string follow when I was done, wished i had added more reflex
I'm no expert, but your first effort seems to be going great - beautiful stave, too.
Tools:
-A stanely shureform works good, but I prefer a rasp.
- Hit the fleamarkets / yard sales this summer, especially near farmland areas, and getcha a good drawknife. This bow's gonna be good, so you'll be getting osage logs at some point!
Lotsa Luck,
john