Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: part Cherokee on May 08, 2009, 04:31:34 pm
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I was just wondering who has the fastest ALL WOOD primitive longbow,reflex/deflex,recurve on here.
Has anyone ever had theirs checked. Im just curious.
You guys ever seen an all wood primitive longbow shoot 200 ft per sec or more?
Not talking about laminated bows. Im talking all wood with no glass , glue or whatever.
Matt
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hillbillync/Other%20Stuff/smilies/pop.gif)
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I had my sticker board bow tested once. 525 grain arrow i got 164 fps out of it, i didn't think that was to bad. 47# @ 28"
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Oh yeah if i forgot . If you dont mind post your setup with your time please.
1.Type of bow
2. draw weight
3. weight of arrow
Thanks Matt
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I tested my Osage recurve once right after I finished it and at my 26" draw with a 500 gr wood arrow it chronoed at 172fps. With a 450 gr carbon and drawn to 28" it chronoed at 187fps. That blew my mind. I don't think I can ever better that. The bow is 60#. I'm not into speed but that was interesting. My FG bow only shoots 185.
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I have one osage that has some natural deflex and it shoots 152fps with 470gr POC at 54lbs@28". Another that will shoot 160fsp simular specs. I think the deflex or string follow has alot to do with it.
I think the rule rings true. An average selfbow well crafted can shoot a 500gr arrow 100fps+draw wieght.
I have seen some screamer selfbows that have shot a 10grain/lb draw arrow at 170fps. There are claims in Trad Bowyers Bible that people have made selfbows kicking around 180fps.
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I have a 46# reflexed selfbow that would shoot a 465 grain shaft between 177 and 180 fps shortly after I finished it. I have a well shot in 50# osage bow that will do 175 fps with a 508 grain shaft. This is drawn to 27".
I think RyanO has made a few that would go in the mid 180's.
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I haven't chronoed mine yet (want to though), but I know my 70# white oak longbow outshot my friends Bear Montanna (both were shooting about 9 gpp arrows). That's about 165 fps I think (for my bow). Which is fine with me.
I also have a 60# hickory longbow that shoots about 11 gpp arrows about as fast as my white oak longbow. With my brothers 500 grain arrows it shoots very fast, but the handshock becomes unpleseant and I don't like shooting that bow for speed.
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I have a 46# reflexed selfbow that would shoot a 465 grain shaft between 177 and 180 fps shortly after I finished it. I have a well shot in 50# osage bow that will do 175 fps with a 508 grain shaft. This is drawn to 27".
I think RyanO has made a few that would go in the mid 180's.
Thats some impressive speed.
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How low of a reading will a chrono go? ;)
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From what I've read, 100 fps plus your draw weight is good speed for a selfbow. So a 47# bow at 147 fps is good results. Less than that is respectable Tim. ;D
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Tim, your just being silly ::) I can tell by looking at your bows that they're probably a good bit faster than average. ;)
As touchy as this subject can be...nobody tries to make a slow bow.
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Yes they do! Try WAJAM. They have a "Try to make the slowest Bow" contest! Very interesting.
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Wow those are some good numbers but nobody has hit the 200 mark?
Not even an all wood recurve?
Matt
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Would that be like the slow bike race at a rally. The last arrow to the target wins :D
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More like how far can it shoot and still have a functional bow!
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ive only chronoed one bow(65lbs @ 26") and that is pictured on this site under (bows by mspink), with a 575 gr arrow it shot 170 and impressed the heck out of the compound guys and myself as well, the other bow pictured seams to shoot as fast but havent chronoed it yet, cool stuff if you ask me
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I've never chronoed a bow. It can turn a perfectly satisfactory bow into a dog in an instant. Anyway I figure if I like a bow that is all that matters.Ron
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I have never been in to speed,I like my bows am built for comfort not speed ;D
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I have made some bow that have hit 190 fps and more with 10 GPP, not many but a few. I've not hit 200 fps with 10 GPP yet
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Tim, your just being silly ::) I can tell by looking at your bows that they're probably a good bit faster than average. ;)
As touchy as this subject can be...nobody tries to make a slow bow.
Thats 100% true. But I notice most on here at least do not push the edge just for speed. Some do.
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My hickory bow 62#'s at 28 inches shot a 680 grain arrow 153 fps andd a 500 grain arrow 173fps.
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I can outrun my arrows to the target. ;D Fast is good, but don't get obsessed with it. There are many other factors that add up to make a good bow. Usually, a screaming fast bow is a shorter-lived bow and is less stable and forgiving than a "normal range" fast bow, and usually less accurate to an extent (but more accurate in the sense of shooting flat over distance). Some people enjoy chasing speed as a challenge, some people just like making a good functional bow that will put an arrow through a deer. There are some guys on here that are cutting-edge as far as design for speed goes-if anybody busts the 200fps mark with a 50-lb. bow shooting 10 gpp, it will probably be Marc, Badger, or some of the other bowyers on here. This topic always seems to get a good argument going between the speed faction and the don't care how fast it is faction. In the end, there's a place for all aspects of archery and bowyery-there is satisfaction to be both had and lost by chasing the chrony, and vice versa. If you make a bow and it suits you and your style of shooting, that's the main thing that matters.
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Wow a lot of imput on this subject.Thanks!!
Still no 200 mark though huh?
I tell you what i feel if you hit in the 180-190 range with an all natural wood bow
that is amazing!!
Wado
Matt
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I'm not sure anybody has hit 200fps at 10 gpp with a glass bow. If there has been, it's been very few.
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"I have just one word to say....SINEW!!!"
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I have chronoed a ton of self bows, all wood laminates, and fiberglass bows. All the arguments aside, trying to craft a fast bow using the standard 10 gpp is interesting for sure, but has very little to offer in the form of hunting big game. Shooting an 700-900 grain arrow in the 160s to 170s will shoot through anything in north America. I am not saying that light fast bows do not have a place or a following. I just think that for self bows should be crafted as heavy as possible and shoot a heavy arrow. I will admit that I am currently working on different designs that will shoot a mid weight arrow from bows under 70 lbs. . The bottom line is that all bow making is interesting, it just depends on your focus.
God bless
Chris Blank
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It sure is nice to know that selfbows (not mine. LOL) are able to compete with glass bows in regards to speed. Some of the speeds mentioned above are just outstanding. I don't own a chrono. I test my bows by flight shooting the same arrow from them all. It's a flu flu and I can do the test in my yard. I compare my bows to my bows. I'm in my own little world anyway. :) Jawge
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I chronoed one of my bows once and was so disappointed in the number I never did it again. I don't even remember the speed. As long as you can put the arrow where you want it really doesn't matter at what at speed it reaches the target. Like Hillbilly said, I could probably outrun my arrows to the target. ;D
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i only chronoed one bow,but that doesnt meet your requirements as it was a boo/ipe lam
othetr than that,never done it again.as long as my bows are accurate and quite thats all i need
heck i dont even know my arrow weight,i just grab some of them and see which ones shoot best from a particular bow
and that what i use from it then.
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With 10 gpp 200 fps hasn't been reached, but it's been topped with some of the better bowyer's bows wand lighter arrows. Some warbows have topped it by sheer power (120# bow and 900 gr arrow).
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The fastest bow I have ever chronoed was a BBO reflex/deflex 53# at 28" that shot several arrows in the 185+ range. The fastest was 187. This bow had very little bend in the outer limbs and seemed to really cast the arrow with a distinct jump near the end of the string throw. I still have it and use it as a model for my other BBO r/d's.
Dan
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The BBI bow I posted awhile back is fast. I haven't chrony'd it, but just from observation at the Classic, mine and Jesse's BBI's that we made from David's blanks are right up there with or surpassing most of the glass bows. You can tell pretty easily by watching people shoot at the long-range targets. The bamboo composites that James and David are making are absolute screamers, too. These aren't selfbows I'm talking about, but they're natural material laminates-and it's good to see that they don't give up anything at all to the plastic bows.
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Like Pat and Cracker stated....Chrony's will make your Favorite Bow...A Dog that never leaves the House....Speed don't reality get it in a Real Life Hunting Situation either...give Me a Forgiving...Quiet....Consistent Shooting Bow over an Arrow Sizzling Speed Stick anyday....the Faster they are....the more quirks they usually end up having. My Sticks are quiet...and easy to shoot...and have never let me down...having to have the exact Arrows...consistently perfect Anchor and Release..... I can pick up one of mine with any Cane Arrows I grab....and snap shoot at most Hunting distances and hit a paper plate...good enough for me!!
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Yes, I've chrono'd a few, actually a lot years ago, and I learned a ton about tuning, release, string materials, and so on.. Speed is the last thing I worry about in a bow. If everything else is right the bow will be as fast as all the variables allow.
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Whats a chrono? ;)
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I chrono most of my bows. Like Rich said, it can be educational. You don't have to use it to judge the bow, you can use it to judge the archers release or "arrow" dynamics. ;D I like a quiet bow and a quiet arrow, but I'm not afraid of a little speed if I can get all 3. ;)
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I must admit I chronograph-ed my bows. My first was a Bamboo backed Red Oak bow 47#@28". I wanted to hunt with it, but was afraid it just wasn't gonna cut it. I am not in to speed, but wanted to make sure I had enough bow to deer hunt with. The best I got out of her was 119fps with a 500 grain arrow. Not enough to generate 25# at impact. I still shoot her as I really like the bow. Anyways, I built a Bamboo backed Osage, 50#@28" . It shot a 500 grain arrow at 165fps in the beginning. After bein shot in fer a while, it is shooting a 500 grain arrow at 155fps. It'll do till I get the next ones built!
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Common fallacy, perhaps just an excuse to sooth one's ego, but fast bows are not necessarily loud, or shocky or hard to shoot well. In fact the opposite is the case. But ulitmately cast is and always has been the standard for any and every bowyer, once the other aspects are attained. And cast is absolutely a very important aspect of any hunting bow in particular, where distance to target is frequently not known with certainty, and time and intellect necessary to estimate well usually very limited.
It can be very humbling, and an incentive for some and an excuse for others. A chrono will teach you a lot and if you are not careful most of it unrelated to bowyering. When you see exceptionally large numbers, look for string type and mass, overdraw or other shooting technique, even relative humidity. Within reason, all well built bows shoot within 5% of each other, within each style and materials obviously. Conversely, when you see exceptionally low numbers, there's a reason and frequently one of the aforementioned. But when you completely ignore cast as an aspect of one's prowess as a bowyer, you miss substantially what makes a bow a bow and consequently what makes a bowyer a bowyer. Nearly anyone can put a string on an appropriately shaped green elm limb right off the tree literally and expect it to not break, and cast and arrow some distance.
My shooting technique is poor, so 170s is the best I've done with a boo backed bow, usually I get in the 160s with selfbows, 10 gpp, 22" power stroke, ~200 grain strings. I have little doubt a practiced shooter with good technique could increase that by 5 t0 10 fps. But still, 5 to 10 fps is not all that much on a percentage basis, which supports my earlier argument.
I've not seen many bows posted here that would not shoot within 90% of the standard, so I expect some who have posted would be surprised what their bows would actually shoot from a machine, all else being equal.
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Most of mine that I have done[and it has been a while] were between 145 and 160 with a 500+
arrow around 50@26.I thought that was pretty slow and I admit I overbuild most of my bows.I think I could make them a little faster but just ant really interested, I do envy the guys that build the fast bows but if they hit where I look and are quite and smooth that is about all I ask from it.
My range when hunting is 10-15 yards so they don't have to be to fast.Good subject I love hearing about this.Maybe someday I will try and speed mine up a little. :)
Pappy
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Pappy,
By rough estimate, with a 22" power stroke (yours is 20"), you'd add 7 to 10 fps per inch of draw. Your talking 159 to 174 numbers now. Not bad huh? Devil is always in the details.
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Now I feel better. ;) ;D Ya I know my short draw don't help.I shoot with several guys that shoot 28
inches of draw and noticed that if they shoot the same weight arrow at about the same draw weight that they seem a lot faster and penetrate a lot more in the target.
So longer power stroke dose make a difference. More than I would have thought. :)
Pappy
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A lot of factors go into the speed read on the chrono when shooting a bow while testing. I have not been able to get over 5fps difference when shooting bows myself with a single arrow through the chrono. Meaning the same bow and arrow drawn by hand to my natural anchor and released the way I always release. My self bows have always held their "own" and then some when shot by the same person through the chrono. The chrono is a valuable tool when evaluating each design and its proper tiler for a given arrow weight and draw legnth. I think the 10 gpp arrow is valuable in comparing bows over the phone and in forums such as this. A heavy bow shooting a light arrow also has some merit when shooting at game such as caribou and Dall sheep where distances over 40 yards are some times required. Other situations lend themselves to overloading the bow such as shooting hogs at night, grizzles, and close work on whitetails. A chrono can show you which bows shoot a lighter than 10 gpp and a heavier than 10 gpp more efficiently for different hunting you may be faced with. I think of a chrono as a tool just like a tiller board and a full length mirror.
God Bless
Chris Blank