Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: knap_123 on February 25, 2009, 10:26:53 pm
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what do you use for a scraper?
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I just hold my draw knife perpendicular to the bow, or sometimes a smaller knife.
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You can buy cabinet scrapers at hardware stores or make your own. Good steel makes a better scraper. An old pair of scissors disassembled will give you 2 excellent scrapers.
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I like the back side of a old sawz all blade.
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I purchased a good quality scraper, and a scraper holder. When it comes to tools, the old saying holds true... you definately get what you pay for.
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I purchased a good quality scraper, and a scraper holder. When it comes to tools, the old saying holds true... you definately get what you pay for.
i agree that when it comes to tools,you get what you pay for.
however if you cant justify spending that kind of money on a tool for a hobby(this coming from someone who has over 50k in tools)then you get by with what you can.
one of my best and favorite scrapers is an old wallpaper scraper blade,just a metall strip that removes wood quit well and is flexible.i also use a pocket knife,mostly for ring chasing.
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i am with them but i don't have much money so i use a perf blade with the teeth removed
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I bought a set of assorted scrapers, 6 or 7 i believe. most straight but two with curves. cost 7 bucks and works wonders
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knap, I'm with you on the scraper delima. I'm chasing my first ring and am not happy with me tools--draw knife, scissors or an index card size piece of metal I cut from an old hand saw. I'm sure 95% of my problem is lack of experience and not the tools. The draw knife is my favorite, but sometimes it's just to heavy and lacks a delicate tough. The scissors and metal card can chatter too much.
adb, I like the looks of your scraper. Can you PM me info about where to get one?
Dave
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I use assorted card scrapers, and a curved one. My favorite scraper is the one that Torges sells. That thing is unreal. It is a little pricey but worth every cent. I would hate to have to give it up.
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My scrapers are short sections (4 to 6 inches) of 1 inch wide bandsaw blades. They came from the sawmill I used to work at, the machine was for re-sawing, similar to a Wood-Mizer. The blades are thick (.041), and that helps prevent chatter. I break off the teeth, and file them smooth. Then the straight edge (the back of the blade) I just file straight and square. They work great on hard woods and not as well on softwoods. There is no need to go though all of the scraper sharpening steps for a scraper like this.
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Started with sandviks and wil stay with them.
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I use a sandvik cabinet scrapers or a mystik scraper.
and a gooseneck scraper.
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I've used the fancy scrapers and I actually prefer my sawzall blade ones over any store bought one I've tried because they flex a little bit and hold a good edge. Normally I would agree with the you get what you pay for comment and I always recommend using the right tool for the job but this is such a simple tool its not rocket science here. I think its more important to know the correct way to sharpen a scraper blade...this make all the difference in the world. ;D
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You are correct Ryan,Once I learned how to REALLY sharpen scrapers, it made alot of difference. Goosenecks are tough still for me to get sharp over the whole curve,seems I always have a dull spot or two.
You guys that don't use gooseneck scrapers for the lil dips and undulations in a bow back,I'm curious what type of tools you use?
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Good quality, sharp tools I can't live without. One of the things I like about this scraper holder is I can bend the scraper to allow work on flat belly wood. The burnishing tool also allows me to get a nice burr on the scraper's edge, and I can adjust the burr angle to provide more or less wood removal. I truly believe these simple hand tools have made me a better bowyer.
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good info guys, i've been using a textile knife but i feel i ned something different. how do you sharpen your scrapers? do you want it flat or beveled on 1 side like a scissor edge?
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Ideally you want the edge to be flat with it's edges rolled at a slight angle.
To do this I clamp my scraper in a vise with about 1/2" above the vise. I use a flat file to true up the flat edge then with a burnisher(a round screw driver shank will work) I rub it down that edge with a slight angle to each side of that edge. Sometimes I will just lay the scraper edge on my belt sander to flatten it.
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I also use that scraper burnishing too from veritas like Adb. You can set that thing so it peels the wood like a potato and then tune it down when you want less. I should learn to sharpen stuff better by hand but my results on knives and such have been mixed so I tend to rely on sharpening gadgets ;D
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for heavy dutty scraping, i use an old machete i've had laying round for years, the blade side i use as a draw knife, and i flattened and tolled the edges on the back side to use as the scraper; it gets dull rather quick, but thats why god gave us the grinder ;D You kiinda have to wear leather gloves when using this contraption of mine since no matter where you are holding it from there is a sharp edge
for careful jobs i use a buck knife.
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Just about any metal piece that is filed and burnished right works for me. Your hands and forearms will let you know when you have the right edge ;) I like that Veritas, someday maybe.
Tracy
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i've been outside playing with some scissors tht seem to work pretty well for now. but i will try some saw blades later.
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I would highly recommend going to the library or buying "Hand Tools: Their Ways and Workings" by Aldren A. Watson. It is published by Norton, and is a treasure trove of information on how to optimize and use hand tools, including scrapers. He not only talks about flat scrapers, but how to make and use scrapers from piston rings, from the tangs of old files for grooves and making rounded moldings, etc.
This book really taught me how to use a draw knife and spokeshave as well, for chamering, fine scraping and wood removal, making curved surfaces, rough stock removal, almost all things that a bow maker does. The illustrations are just amazing, too.
Dane
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I used to use an old meat cleaver. Now I use a Swedish push knife. I also use cooper's tools and a jack knife. Jawge
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being a production machinist, i have access to all kinds of goodies, and i've found the best scraper(in my opinion) is one made from a worn out, all hard, indrustrial hacksaw blade. at about .100 thick, it's absolutely rigid, and when properly sharpened, it will raise a curl hefty enough to equal a fine file, or take as small an amount as you might want to do! i have several that i've made, but my favorite is about 2 1/2" wide by about 6" long. probably the only downside is the fact that rolling a burr requires carbide. i've solved that by putting a carbide round in the drill press, and run the scraper along the spinning carbide at an angle so that it pulls a burr over. great tool!
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i would love to own scrapers that nice.
i am definatly a tool guy,however my tools make my living and this is just a hobby so i cant justify that kind of money just to play.
but hey to each his own,someday maybe my wife or kids will be generous enough and get me some sweet scrapers as gifts.
one can only hope.
peace,
tim
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Tim, part of making bows and atlatls and stuff is to keep sane, and to keep in perspective what is important, after coming home from a long day with nasty clients, traffic jams, all of that real life fun. Isn't a six buck scraper worth it? When I buy any tool, though, I justify it by the other tasks I can use for it, in almost all cases.
Dane
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Tim, part of making bows and atlatls and stuff is to keep sane, and to keep in perspective what is important, after coming home from a long day with nasty clients, traffic jams, all of that real life fun. Isn't a six buck scraper worth it? When I buy any tool, though, I justify it by the other tasks I can use for it, in almost all cases.
Dane
dane,
i agree for the most part.i am an auto tech by trade so ya a $6 tool isnt spendy,i am just cheap.
if a tool isnt making me money or isnt aboslutely neccesary i realy cant justify the purchase.
plus i like to make my own tools for making bows, or as Clint Eastwood said in his movie HEARTBREAK RIDGE, "adapt,improvise,overcome"
something else ive learned after 20+ years of turning wrenches.this is a must when being a tech,cause nobody has every tool and sometimes ya just gotta
adapt,improvise overcome.
and like i said,i am cheap but if the wife or kids wanted to buy them for me i woldnt say no ;D
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i set and algin mechinery by trade as a millwright i found some good old shim stock make s great scrapers i file the edge then roll a burri have a preformax wet stone that keeps em sharp as i want em also i use a wood craft scraper sharpning system perfect edge every time and i roll the burr right there on the pin brock
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what doe roll he burr mean?(http://www.funutilities.com/files/smileys/07/04/231.gif)
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I am with Dane on this one. Especially when you get used using certain tools. With very little work time I like to maximize the little time with some good tools. The key to any scraper is getting a good burr. I find that all the card scrapers I have lose the burr so quickly. The torges scraper, which is a really nice chair scraper holds a burr forever. The best part about good tools, is that if you take care of them they will last a lifetime or more.
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what doe roll he burr mean?(http://www.funutilities.com/files/smileys/07/04/231.gif)
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knap, google "how to sharpen a scraper" There's some really helpful info. Since some of the companies do not advertise with PA, I can't post a link.
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I have about 20 scrapers from sandviks to split scissors like Pat mentioned. One thing I learned years ago since I use these often for hours daily is I don't sharpen them the traditional method and run them through a grinder with a medium or fine wheel with the rest set at 90 deg.
I can sharpen all these scrapers in two minutes, and since I work with a lot of the heaviest Ipe there is, no matter how well its sharpened it will be dull in a few minutes and how fast you can touch them up matters more than anything..
I learned how to roll and edge when I was 12, but for bowmaking getting a clean 90 deg. edge works better for me, and at more angles. I can lay it flat on a straight bow or be perpendicular to a knot with a pointed one.
I did a demo at the last mojam as part of my glue-up seminar. Never seen so many eyes bug out from what I did..Kinda freaky but I made many converts.
Try it, you will save your energy for tillering, and get more done. :D
Rich-
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what doe roll he burr mean?(http://www.funutilities.com/files/smileys/07/04/231.gif)
Click here (http://www.crawlersmileys.com/?d=1&src=frm&tbid=60314) to add cool Smileys to this website for FREE!
I D/L'd these Smileys....and locked My Computer up big time.....
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I agree with Rich about sharpening scrapers--It's true that a properly sharpened scraper is a joy to use, but it is not necessary for most bowmaking tasks, especially for tillering. What I do with is my scraper when tillering is just remove wood, I don't care about how nice the finnish left behind. It will take maybe a little more effort with out rolling the burr, but just a clean 90 degree edge will work for many woods. As a professional woodworker we use scrapers mostly for dried glue removal, since sandpaper works better for consistent results and less chance of damage on finished work.
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Orcbow, maybe you can give a demo at the Heartland in May?
Tracy
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you tube has lots of info on rolling a bur or under sharpening a scraper [ftp][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfUi8Nm6_Jg/ftp]
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Often I'm getting a smoother finish on the heavier woods with my thin scrapers than the 600 wet/dry I'm using in conjunction. I also have some larger push scrapers which will remove wood like a spokeshave or faster since when used pushing downward I can get my body weight behind it :o ;)
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The best, fine tillering scraper I've found so far is a piece of chain saw bar ,cut to size.I sharpen mine on a belt sander in seconds.It does'nt get hot like cabinet scrapers do,and is very easy to control.I generally get it tillered to brace with a draw knike,then switch to the CSB scraper. God Bless
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This is a great topic and very relevant. I bought a cheap set of scrapers (3 for $5) from the Big tool store" the other day and I must say, I did'nt know how much I needed them until I had them and used them. I am totally sold. I have not yet re sharpened them yet because I understood from Dean Torges tutorial you needed a burnishing tool and those were $30.00. Any cheap suggestions for rolling the edge without a burnishing steel? I also would like to get a good rounded scrapper, these are rectangle. I had one but lost it in the shavings pile at OJAM last year ( If anyone found it during clean up let me know. I am keeping my eyes open for a good deal or at yard sales, may be I'll get fortunate. The ability to get your belly flat is amazing and I will not do without it from now on. Danny
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Sidewinder-
You can use a scewdriver shank as a burnishing rod. Just put a drop of oil on the edge before you start to roll it.
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I've made all of my scrapers out of heavy used table saw blades. I can get 6 scrapers out of a 10 inch blade. Sharpening takes about 30 seconds. I just hold them at 90 degrees to the grinder and go. Keep 5 or 6 going and you can work an hour or two before you need to sharpen them. Al
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Orcbow, maybe you can give a demo at the Heartland in May?
Tracy
Tracy: sure I would do that.
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Thanks Rick I had wondered if something like that would work. I will give it a shot. Danny
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Table saw blades can be too thick to roll the edge and these work well in the grinder since these hard steels make such a workable edge for what we do when touched up on the grinder. When you do this remember the "rough" edge will be away from the wood.
This is a different process from the traditional manner, and will seem alien until you try it.. I've cut up my share of table saw blades for scrapers and a grinder is a great tool for shaping them...
30$ for a burnishing too :o heck the grinder you need costs 50$ and it has many other uses as well.
Rich-"progressive methods lead to more efficient bowmaking" ;)
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http://www.gerritse.nl/~images/products/gerritse/642-477/184932.jpg
I used this one for 2 years, it performs great! the long handle is sometimes a little in your way, but you can probably trim it down, I might try this.
just sharpen it in a 45degree angle, with a regular sharpener.
Nick
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so a rolled edge is mostly used in fine tunning and a beveled edge is for mass right? such as my draw knife or scissors?
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I have several pcs of stainless steel scrap approx 3in x 5in from my old job but most of my scraping is done with an old butcher knife that I wrapped the point end in cardboard and duct tape for a safe handle and just roll the edge with a file and it cuts great. Nice thing is most people have too many knifes laying around and if not you can find tons at rummage sales.
VB
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Here is what i use.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/johnkeehn/drawknife.jpg)
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tell me, how do you scrape with that measuring tape(correct translation?)
Nick