Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jeffreythree on February 10, 2009, 07:32:45 pm
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I tried a search, but kind of came up with zilch except it is frowned on to cut staves blanks with a sawmill because of grain direction and ring orientation. I know a lot about wood, but very little about making a bow. The first ones I make are going to come from this excellent thread currently below mine: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,11235.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,11235.0.html). I have a portable bandsawmill and am going to be doing some timber work on my property converting my own trees into lumber. I figured I could cut some of it into staves, especially since the outer parts of the logs are usually trimmed away to from a cant for lumber. I read on hickory you use the sap wood, so my waste pieces could be used for staves couldn't they? I also have several elm species, and splitting is a bear on the interlocked grain. Or I could partially cut into large blanks and split these? It sure would be nice to be able to get some of these drying so that in the future I have them ready to go.
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Yes the slabs you cut off the outside will be great as long as they are thick enough. You can also cut them into boards and back them. With the sawmill you could cut a board into backings.
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I have gotten a few nice hickory staves from work. I sharpen the saws for a 6' headrig and a 6' resaw.
Whenever I see a nice hickory log come in, I sometimes have the sawyer slab it heavy and then run it through the egder...instant stave! ;D
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It would need to be very straight grain, then sawn wide enough not to violate the grain,much easier to use hammer and wedge,much easier to follow grain when the staves have been split,as the edges will mimic the grain,
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You are essentially making boards and that is fine. Board bows work. FYI the closer the board is milled parallel to the bark of the tree the more the chance of success. There's board info on my site. jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
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He's talking about getting staves from the slabs he saws off the sides of the logs. The slab being the first cut taken during the process of making the log square. It has the bark on it and is usually wide enough to get a bow from the middle of it without violating the longitudal grain.
On straight hickory, all you have to do is make the first cut a little thicker than normal and it will make the same stave as one you would split out. ;)
I've seen thousands and thousands of "staves" cut off the sides of logs over the years.
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Sounds like it would work great for straight grain woods. :)
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Saw Flier, are these slabs generally scrapped or is there a demand for them? Seems like you could definitely get one or two(? )staves off of this piece if I'm picturing it right, with the possibility of 4 slabs?
Tracy
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Tracy around here most of the slabs end up in someones firewood pile, there is no reason you can't get a nice stave
from a slab if its big enough. And if its wide enough no reason you can't split it along the natural grain.
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Thanks Dana. Not familiar with the industry, but now live in the part of the state where there are many small mills. Guess what I'm going to check on now? ;D
Tracy
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One thing to look out for is how fresh is the wood? If its been sitting it may be junk :(
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A saw mill isn't the best place to get good bow wood. The sawyer isn't thinking about bow wood but lumber. What will work to build a house isn't necessarily good to build a bow. A little bit of fungi in lumber meant to be nailed up with other wood to achieve a strong bond has a minimal effect on the finished product and the fungi will soon die or go dormant as the wood dries.
With bows, that single piece of wood has to stand up to stresses that need perfectly unaffected wood to be effective. (boy, that sounds complicated ::) ) If you are sure that the wood the sawyer cuts has not sat around for a while, sawmill lumber can make good bows. I personally would rather cut my own wood or get it from someone that knows bow wood. With all the work that goes into making a wood bow, it would be a shame to have it fail because, unknowingly, the wood wasn't treated properly after it was cut.
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You know, Pat, I 've heard others say the same thing but then think nothing of going to Lowes or Home Depot and buy a red oak, hickory or other such board and be tickled with the bow they just made. What is the difference other than the kilm drying? Probably nothing in all realty. Those who cut the logs for the big box lumber yard wasn't thinking about bows, either. How long did they let the logs lay around until they were cut up at a sawmill? Who know?
Point is good boards can be found at both the big commercial lumber suppliers and the small local sawmill. And we don't know the history of the logs at either one, too.
The added benefit is at the local lumber supplier, if he takes a liking to you, as mine has done, is that he will set aside a good log just for you and cut it custom. And they really like it when you make them a bow out of the wood you got off them. Gets you more favors ;)
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Good point Pat and Dana. I prefer cutting all of my wood too. Just thought it would be another option/challenge when I get caught up, like that will ever happen. ;D
Thanks Tracy
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Christopher, the local saw mills around here have large piles of logs stacked up for over a year sometimes. I wouldn't trust them for bows but I would build a barn with it. The wood going to the lumber industry usually is cut, stacked on trucks and hauled to the sawmill where it is taken care of quite soon. By putting it in a kiln they are killing any fungi that might have invaded the wood. I'm not negative on sawmills and if you have a sawyer that you can trust than that good. For most guys out there that are just starting out, I don't think it is a good idea unless they know wood and the sawyer cutting it.
This is just my opinion and I have been wrong before.
When I go to look for wood(usually hickory for backings) I pick through the piles until I find just the right piece. Many times I've gone home with no wood because what was available was not appropriate for what I wanted to use it for or it had fungi or rot issues.
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Well here is what I will do. I will be milling my logs within 24 hours of when they hit the ground. I will knock a thick enough slab for staves from one that shows straight grain, no knots, or any other defects that I can tell. The slab can then be split into 1 or 2 staves. I will takes pics of the whole thing, and everyone can tell me if they think it will work or if they are still firewood. I am not wasting anything by trying since the slab was going into the firewood pile anyway. I think I will knock out a few thin hickory boards to use for laminations in the future to get a feel for how thin hickory dries while doing the above.
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Jeffrey, I know that will work just as well a splitting the logs into staves.
I've been the Head Sawfiler at a large hardwood lumber mill for 13 years. We saw about 120,000 board feet of hardwood lumber every day.
Like Pat said, I've seen some mills who keep logs on the yard for months and months before sawing them. In that instance, it is possible for the logs to stain (the early stages of rot) and the wood to degrade to the point of being useless for bows. This is most common with red oak and white oak, but will happen to any of it if left long enough. That rarely happens where I work because we go through such a massive volume of logs.
If you slab the logs heavy enough for the slab to be about 3-4" thick in the center, you'll get a good stave or two from each slab, depending on the diameter and condition of the log.
Like I said before, I've seen thousands of potential bows chipped up and turned into either paper or charcoal. :(
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Jeffreythree, I too own my own portable bandsaw mill. I actually milled a hickory log for bow wood last weekend. The first cut (slabs) will be fine for selfbows there will be no ring violations just remove the bark and you have your back. You might consider spliting the slabs into usuable widths with a wedge. After I slabbed the hickory log I quarter sawed the remainder for bow backing. If there is a wood that can handle ring violations its hickory. Very tough stuff. Don