Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DanaM on February 07, 2009, 01:59:30 pm
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I'm resigned to the fact that I will have a 25" draw length for the rest of my life so I'm wondering if anyone has
an opinion on a bow design that will optimize such a short draw? Also will a low brace height like 4" help increase performance
due to a longer power stroke? I don't have to worry about wrist slap due to the bow in my arm :) :( The only way I will get a longer DL is to pull past
my normal anchor but that is uncomfortable and unnatural feeling. Any thoughts guys???
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DanaM, Low string height will increase arrow speed as will a higher draw weight. You could easily, through exercise, build your strength up to where you could readily handle a 75 or 80 pound bow. Other than longer draw, I believe these are your only options.
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Make your bow length twice your draw length plus 10% to 20%! Also a heavily deflexed handle will act as an overdraw.
The lower the brace height the longer the power stroke....but...at some point the arrow trying to get around the bow and the string releasing the arrow start to conflict with each other and cause bad arrow flight. I believe there is a happy medium but you'll have to figure your own out.
It would be easier to change your equipment than to change your style.
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Xin due to a bad shoulder heavy weight is out of the question.
Pat when you say heavily deflexed handle I assume you mean the inner limbs then counter it with reflexed out limbs eh.
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I could show you but it's hard to describe it. Maybe like all the reflex is right at the handle and the limbs go out from there. When you brace the bow the handle should be farther back(towards the belly) than the plane of the limbs. That might give you an extra inch of draw to work with.
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Hello Dana i have the opposite Problem... I'm draw 32 " O:)
let me tell you a experience i have in building Bows for my nephews...
i use a 1/4" thick and 1 1/2" wide 4' long peace Hickory board Glued a 6" long peace for the handle on it.
I bend the limbs at the end of the handle 30 ° reflex. I designed the Limbs in Holmegard design and i take the last 6" of the limbs as a kind of Siyahs and bend it another 30° reflex.
I glued a 1/8" thick peace Hickory on the the last 6 inches of the Limb go get it Stiff.......
After finishing i shot the 17# bow and i was more than astonished how fast the Bow was.... My opinion is you have to think about the design.
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I have a 25'' draw too. I make my bows 54'' long. My view is that it's all about mass. The arrow mass plus moving bow limb mass related to how much work it's required to do. If you're shooting a 68'' bow at 25'', you're asking way too much wood (limb) to get powered forward out of the arrow's way so that the arrow can move at a decent speed. Long bow advocates like Tim Baker (TBB4) say to make the bow tips needle thin and make the center wood non bending. All that does is lower "moving mass" while keeping string angle low. As far as I can see, If you just cut out the center 14'' of non moving wood and keep the limb tips stiff, you have the same amount of moving wood with a nearly identical string angle and no need looking for a 7' stave to start with. But just because the bow is "THE ABSOLUTE PERFECTLY UNDENIABLE LENGTH AS ALL MAN TALL BOWS OBVIOUSLY ARE", it is therefore magically better in every way than the pitiful short bow? Please. Make your 54'' D bow with needle thin tips and it will shoot every bit as well as the monster man tall perfect version. My personal favorite bow design leaves the bow tips 1/2'' to 3/4'' wide; needle tips just don't do it for me.
I have a wide tipped 54'' Eastern Woodlands flatbow 40 lbs at 25''. It shoots a 450 grain arrow 160fps. Tim Baker's Prized 1st place bow from MOJAM only shot 17fps over normal. My "horribly disfigured, not worth comparing because it's too short", bow out shoots his perfectly designed long bow. Plus the arrow should have been 50 grains lighter for the test. And the tips are 3/4'' wide.
Make it short and reflex it a bit. You'll be fine
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I think Pat means reflex the handle not deflex. It would act like a over draw of sorts. I do just the opposite thing by making reverse handles on short bows so they can be drawn farther.
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I'm not complaining about the speed of my bows, more than enough speed and power to kill a deer :)
I've also decided short is the way to go with a 25" DL, makes no sense to make a long bow to lug around
in the woods all day. I'm just real curious what some of you think, too often 28" is considered a normal draw but
from seeing the bows posted on here its not anywhere close to the norm :o Most folks draw less thann 28"
I think one other thing to consider with a short draw is not tiller past your draw length, if your only drawing 25" why tiller it to 26"
Pat and Ryano ya wouldn't happen to have a picture or even a drawing of what yer talking about would ya? Pictures are good :)
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A 66" bow with your draw should be super stable and fast and not give you any trouble. A short draw never gave Native Americans game-killing trouble. I think you're oly disadvantage would be if you want to shoot at long distances.
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I think Dana broght up a good point about not tillering past your draw length. That makes a big difference on wooden bows. Also with a shorter draw the bow can tolerate a bit more reflex as a rule and maybe just a slightly stiffer center section than usual.
Ben, all the mojam bows were tested with 500 grain arrows and 28" draws. They used the number 100 plus draw weight as a par, anything over that was the plus. If you were shooting 500 grains it would have put you at about 154,or a plus 14 which would have still been faster considering your short draw. steve
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Dana ,I agree,If I'm going to keep a bow to hunt with,I never tiller past my drawlenght.I like short bows,but,not too short.Lately,my favorite lenght hands down,is a 58"-62" bow,tillered to 26",anywhere from 50# to 55#.I like the lowest brace I can get away with,and would rather the bow hold a little reflex,although there are exceptions.I have the same problem with a rather short draw,and this formula works good for me. God Bless
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I have been wondering the same thing. Due to a shoulder injury I can only draw to 25' too. The bow I am now shooting is a R/D design and is 66 ntn. It shoots fast and hard and is only 52#. The good thing is you don't brake as many bows trying to get a longer draw!! ;D LOL
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The way I see it, excellent performance is the sum of three things: excellent design, excellent bow material, and excellent shooting skills. There might be something out there that hasn't been thought of yet, as far as design, but I doubt it. I think there might be a few things that we can still learn from ancient bows, but they will be subtle things. As bowyers, we all pretty much know how to get a bow to perform well.
I like short draws. 20" was my favorite but I'm now interested in increasing the draw length to 23" or 24" and decreasing the draw weight. I think the power stroke and proper limb design are more beneficial than draw weight.....and more interesting as far as building the bows.
Short draws also allow for smaller bows. That's a big plus in my book. ;D
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Thanks for the responses guys :)
Patrick compared to a 20" draw I'm a regular giant at 25" DL :D
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:)
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Hello Gentlemen,
I know that I am a few days behind on this thread so sorry about bringing up one with a few days behind it. I wanted to add, though, that what I think they were trying to say about the deflex or reflexed handle is what is called a "set back" handle in the TTBB's.
This is done by steaming the handle area until soft and then placing the bow, belly down, in a form and clamping using the presure on the back of the, protected, handle to push it down which forces the limbs out in a relex right from the handle and fades, creating more energy storage.
Many have opted to dry heat the entire limbs on a caul nowadays but the set back handle really works and looks unique.
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Thanks for the input eh :)
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as far as I understand it , if the bow is made proportionally shorter, a shorter draw length will make no difference to the bows efficiency, on a shorter bow a shorter draw is working the bow to the same degree as a longer draw on a longer bow, so in my (unprofessional) opinion , a shorter draw length should be no handicap, provided the bow is designed for it
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amen.