Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: roofus on December 08, 2008, 04:47:22 pm
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Would backing a Hickory bow with Hickory be the same as a self bow?
I've seen it a few times and I am intrigued.
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Hmmmmm...is a taco wrapped with two tortillas still a taco? Yep, but it's overkill. ;) JMHO.
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my impression of a selfbow is that it is a single piece of wood, so no laminations or backings. a backing of the same kind of wood as you start with is still a backing, so i wouldnt call it a selfbow. it may also not be overkill-a hickory board with poor grain could be made into a durable bow with a hickory backing of good grain. a true seflbow is likely to be easier and quicker to make. SOM
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I guess if you glue the backing on with a bit of reflex (or some other fancy bowyer's trick), it wouldn't perform like a selfbow....but this is a fun question. I know that backing is backing and laminations are laminations, but the end result is very similar to (if not exactly like) a self bow.
I think you should try it if it interests you....and I don't think too many self-bow people would get upset with the idea of you shooting alongside of them.... ;D
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Well, I have'nt decided what to use for my hunting bow yet but, like I said this intrigues me.
I was thinking of Hickory with a Hickory back glued up and clamped down to build in reflex and then backing the backing with a snake skin.
That may be a bit much for my first true hunting bow but, maybe someday.
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Hickory backed hickory is popular amoungst flight shooters, you can buy an inexpensive hickory board and simply back it with straight grained hickory, creating an r/d design, or reflexed or recurve or whatever. You take advantage of the Perry reflex doing this. Steve
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some on here will tell ya that hickory is a poor belly wood.
ive used it,it works fine.lots of choices,i think thats why we all get addicted cause we keep wanting to try another wood/style/combo etc.
i think my next lam is going to be a boo/osage or hick/osage,never done hick/hick just boo/hick
good luck,
peace,
tim
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Well, my understanding of it is that its not just the 2 pieces of wood but the incredibly strong glue joint in there that also adds to the make up of that bow.
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No. A self bow is a bow made from a single piece of wood/material. Any bow that is backed would be considered a composite bow.
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I think Badbill is correct about the glue line. That alone adds a few pounds because the 2 parts are working against each other at the glue line. Hickory backed hickory makes a good combo but humidity can be a problem. Hickory backed osage makes an excellent combo and goes together simply. Pat
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Hickory backed osage is my favorite combo. Steve
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As we are already on the topic.....
What do you think, if a backing of less tension strong wood is placed as backing on hickory than hickory itself?
Say ash wood or maple?
Wouldn't this indeed be a better combination?
I would think hickory overpowers itself, so a lesser tension wood on the back would equal out with its compression strength....
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Nope laminated is still Laminated....but unless you were really scared of some serious Flaw in the Hickory....or it is a Board with some runoff....I don't see the need in backing it.........JMO
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Speaking of selfbows. Would a bow made from a stave backed with sinew be considered a selfbow? Fran
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uh oh this could get ugly Im just gonna watch :D
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Theoretically speaking a sinew backed bow is a backed bow. A self bow is made of one piece of wood however a bow that is spliced in the handle but otherwise a self bow is still considered a self bow.
I would think that a backing of a weaker wood like ash or elm may be a better candidate for backing a hickory bow.
When Badger mentioned that hickory backed hickory is preferred by flight shooters they(flight shooters) are holding their competitions in very dry climates and that is where hickory shines but it is too dry for other woods.
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Hey Dean! Glad to see you! Welcome to the forum. ;D
We've had this discussion before....a backing is anything that is on the back of the bow unless it is for decoration (like paint). I don't remember if most people consider snakeskins (or fish skins) to be decoration or backing.
Any kind of cloth (even it's only for camo), sinew, or plant fiber is considered a backing, I think.
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any backed bow is a backed bow. a selfbow is a bow all by itself-no backings, laminations, or whatever. a stick and string. the thing with definitions is that they get sticky quickly. what defines primitive is something that has caused problems on this site before, but really it shouldnt be a big deal. the only reason to have these agreed upon definitions is so that we can communicate about the material more effectively, not so that my bow can be any better than yours becuase it is a seflbow, not a selfbow, more/less primitive, etc. this shouldnt get ugly and there shouldnt be the urge to sit back and watch sparks fly-it always confuses me why these things are such hot button issues.
i dont think that the hick/hick combo is good for flight shooters just because of the low humidity, although that probably does have a lot to do with it. for flight shooters they want as much efficiency for as little mass as possible in the extremes that most bowyers do not try to push material. when you start to think in terms of maximum efficiency you think of belly materials that resist bending extremely well, and so store lots of energy-like horn or bone-and this should be matched with an elastic enough backing to actually allow energy transfer-something like sinew-and this generally leads one to rediscover the asiatic composites. they are massive though-both sinew and horn are more dense than wood. so for mass alone you want real light woods. these tend to not be as strong as you would want. i think a good compromise is in the hickory area as it is not really heavy but it is not much weaker than the hardest woods either. the backing, as mentioned before, can also add a little efficiency to the bow along the glue line.
SOM
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Glad to be a member now. I have learned and will keep learning a-lot from Primitive Archer. And yes I agree a selfbow is just one piece of wood. Don't want to stir anything up here. Dean
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I agree that a backed bow of any sort is not a self bow, but if you want a really fast bow, glue two equally thin laminations of hickory together with Titebond III and put a little reflex/deflex in it. I build quite a few bows this way and I have been very pleased with the outcome. I think the secret is the fact that both lams are the same thickness. You can then tiller equally from the back or the belly, glue on a handle and overlays and you have a fine shooter. Not primitive, of course, but effective.
Dan
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GOOD DECSIONS HERE GUYS IM WITH JESSE AND DEAN DONT WANNA STIR NOTHING UP BUT WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN IDEAS ON WHATS WHAT I SAY ANYTHING BACKED WITH ANY OTHER WOOD IS NOT A SELF BOW !!! A SELF BOWS DEFENATIONS SHOLD BE IT S A SOLID CHUNK OF WOOD BUT THEN SNAKE SKINS AND RAWHIDE DONT COUNT CUZ THATS MOSTLEY FOR DECORATION OR SFATEY BROCK
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Hickory backed hickory is still a laminate bow. I've made several maple backed maple bows, and I definately considered them laminate bows. Also, I believe a sinew backed bow is a laminate.