Sapling Bow Project - Holly (green reduction)

[david w.]

This is great!!  What do you think of holly as a bow wood?

[ber643]

Having a little trouble (for some reason), at this point, trying to keep the tips (propeller twists) straight right now, and a little leery of putting it on the tillering tree for fear of the string slipping off. I may have to cut the grooves deeper and see if exercising will help straighten the twists. I heat them out, let it cool real good before unclamping, and they look pretty good. Then before I can get turned around good they are back askew - without doing anything to the bow. I tried both longer heat periods and longer cooling periods. I'll keep trying but it has slowed me down considerable - LOL. Must be the Hob-gobblins!

................................................

Last few days I've been feeling pretty puny (since Thurs. PM) so haven't accomplished much of anything. I did get out to my tillering tree one PM long enough to find (much to my surprise - guess I'd been concentrating too much on left and right deviations to notice it) that the top limb of "Hollyween" took off downward at about a 15 degree angle from the handle, while the bottom limb went pretty straight (for a sapling) out from the handle (on the tillering tree that is). Big dissappointment, since heating and bending hadn't been working too well on the rascal for other areas I've been working on. This AM I finally felt well enough to get (part of) my brain cooking again, and figured out a way to brace the bow, while heating and bending, that might bring the top limb closer to level. As the following (before & after) pictures will show, it seemed to work to a fair degree (also to my surprise -  ). Now if it will just hold that shape , perhaps I can proceed with tillering, when I can get back out on the tree. (She really is a witch, you know - even if a rather attractive one -  )

Before:



After:



...............................................................

  I'm not 100% yet but feeling much better today (wish it would warm up again though, but that's just me), and was able to post this thread tonight. I was out and about a little today and hope to be tomorrow - and then I should be forging ahead - LOL. Caught up to date now, and thanks for looking in again.

[ber643]

david w, I made a few comments on the first page (about 2/3 of the way down), about Holly in general, and I pretty much find it that way to work with. I don't know a lot about it as a finished bow - yet - LOL. I do have one youth weight bow out of a smaller yet Holly sapling that my friend Mike made. He gave it to me as a rough bow to finish shaping, sanding and finishing - to use for any kids or ladies that I might need it for. I liked the way it finished up and it shoots pretty nice, though I don't get to pull it to my full draw. I would think it will be pretty consistant and tough for the right person. I loved the way it finished up - I did it natural, with Tru-oil, and put some Native American decorations on it in Black. I'll copy what I said earlier in the thread, here also:
 
...................................................

For those who wonder about Holly, from what I've been told about Holly (here in NC), it may not make the fastest or flashiest bow, but it definitely will be a strong and lasting bow, if done right (watching the knots). I like the look and feel of the wood, when you hit clear patches - smile. It's fairly dense, and the fibres seem to be quite interwoven. It rasps/files well and sands nicely - IMO. Scrapes well too, except for the knots. Hope that helps. I believe either Censu or Asier (on Paleoplanet) said that they used a lot of Holly where they live (Malta and Spain).

...................................................

BTW I did get my carport/workshop closed in on two sides (all I intended to close in) and got my tillering tree set back up, except for the graph boards (behind the bow limbs). I'll put those back up as soon as it warms up - just a tad. You'll notice it in future pics, once I get to tillering again.

[jape]

Thanks Bernie, this is a great thread to watch. I lost touch with your thread on splitting that other old bit of gnarly Holly, whatever happened to it?
Magickally the Holly is associated with protection and with overthrowing old power, bringing in the new - should make a good bow come the revolution! it doesn't tolerate malice or evil ... so no nasty thoughts while you are looking at the neighbour's yappy dog with it in your hand, or it might just turn on ya! Seriously though, this looks like a really good bow hidden away in there. Thanks for showing us your patience and skill in teasing it out.

[ber643]

Thank you so much, jape, both for the additional info on Holly and for the encouragement. I'll try to keep "the good thoughts" while around Hollyween - LOL. I still have those pieces from the Gnarly one and may yet attack them in a letter time period. I have a wild cherry (Choke Cherry) barely started now, and an Osage stave on it's way to me, so the ragged Holly "staves" may have to wait in the wings. It (the splitting)was an experience in itself though.

[Ryano]

Thats cool Bernie. I think it would look really neat if you fliped the tips up a little bit. Deflex reflex.....

[George Tsoukalas]

Outstanding, Bernie. You are working hard on that stave. Jawge

[ber643]

Thanks, Ryan. I might not mind doing that if I could get this rascal to hold any heat bending. I am having the worst time with that. She really has a mind of her own and seems to revel in trying my patience -  . If I ever get her in line (even close) to how I want her, then I might at least try to flip the one tip, at least, to match the natural flip in the other tip (don't know if you've seen/noticed it - about the last 3 or 4"). I need someone like you who is a past-master at R/D to come down here and sit on her for awhile (teach her some manners -  )

[Ryano]

Bernie, if the moisture content is to high still it may resist being heat bent, or at least want to warp back to its original shape. You might try steaming the area's you want to bend over a pot covered with tin foil. This should help speed up the drying process as well. Once you get the limb hot and bent on your form leave it on the form for like 24 hours.

[Pappy]

Cool thread,All the problem solving going on.That's what is fun for me on this bow building stuff,
it makes you think and then try and figure a way to solve it.It don't always work but you learn a lot about what you can get away with and what you can't.Nice job.I agree with Ryan on the steaming.
   Pappy

[ber643]

Thanks Jawge, Ryan, & Pappy. I considered that perhaps it was still green enough to need steam, instead of dry, heat but from the weight and size reduction, as well as the feel look, etc.,  I would think the moisture content is way down (I may be wrong, of course. Perhaps I'll try the steam heat and see if it works.

[Ryano]

Bernie, it can feel dry on the outside and still be pretty moist inside. Unless your using a hot box or in a desert I don't think that wood is dry enough yet just cut fresh in October. White woods need to be extremely dry to perform well and will want to return to their original shape until its dry-dry.

[AKAPK]

Bernie, you have Great techniques for training the wood.PK

[ber643]

Thank you, PK.

Ryan - Oh great - LOL. Well, that's where experience comes in handy - thank you - I'll fall back and regroup, as we used to say in the Corps  . (I must admit, I was trying my best to stay away from steam heat - time to learn/practice it I guess.)

[ber643]

I was advised by good friend, Pat B, to Shellac Hollyween's back for her, before trying to steam heat for bending, just in case she took a notion to crack, after the hydration. The shellac will stand the heat and steam, whereas the washable white glue I usually use, of course, would not. So I picked up a can on my way hunting (no luck again) yesterday evening, and "do-ed it to-ed it" this AM.