Author Topic: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question  (Read 5738 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline islandpiper

  • Member
  • Posts: 635
  • "Just one more bow, OK?"
Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« on: November 02, 2008, 10:29:27 pm »
To the Mods:   If microwave questions don't apply, then boot this one.

OK.........how about if a fellow had a spare used microwave, and made a hole in the left side just big enough to slide in a well-soaked limb-end, and sealed up the space around it with tinfoil.   Then, closed the door and hit START.    That wood would be heated inside and out, no scorching, ready to pull out and stick in the bending press. 

Hmmmmm...............

comments?   I'll duck if I see old boots or 'maters headed this way. 

piper

Offline brownhillboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 577
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 10:34:21 pm »
Wouldn't there be a reaction with the tin foil?
south central VA

Offline sailordad

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 10:35:41 pm »
huh!!

well my understanding, and i may be way off base,is that a microwave COOKS from the inside out. if this is true then how would you know
if you havent cooked out all of the moisture from the interior of the wood before the outside became hot enough.
me personnaly would be afraid to try and bend it at this point then,wood even when hot still needs to have moisture in it to be pliable.ifn it gets to dry it becomes
brittle and thats when you here thise dreaded cracks and snapping sounds that we all fear.

but what the hell give it a try and let us know


                                                                      peace,
                                                                             tim
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline islandpiper

  • Member
  • Posts: 635
  • "Just one more bow, OK?"
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 10:37:43 pm »
OK, use a wet paper towel.   you just don't want the waves to escape .   Remember, the walls of the oven cavity are metal, too.   the reason foil reacts in the oven is that it is not a part of the circuit.   Mashing it into a hole in the wall would make it so.  

I'm pretty sure that there would be no trouble as LONG AS THE HOLE WAS FILLED  with something that will reflect or absorb the waves.  

piper

Offline islandpiper

  • Member
  • Posts: 635
  • "Just one more bow, OK?"
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 10:39:32 pm »
I have heated smaller pieces of wood in the micro  for bending with no trouble.   The only change here would be the insertion of a limb into the side of the oven.  piper

Offline El Destructo

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,078
  • Longhaired Crippled Hippie Biker And Proud Of It!!
    • Desert Sportz Primitive Archery
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 10:43:47 pm »
I think it would work....Just plug the Hole with some Plumbers Putty....and make sure that you don't overexpose it..only one sure way to figure it out.....give it a Shot!! And let Us see and tell Us about the Outcome....I for one am interested..........
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
Think HEALTHCARE Is Expensive Now,Wait Till It's FREE
Do Or Do Not,There Is No TRY
2024...We Will Overcome

Offline islandpiper

  • Member
  • Posts: 635
  • "Just one more bow, OK?"
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2008, 10:47:37 pm »
OK, I'll start looking for one of those pre-Columbian wood-burning microwaves.  piper

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,609
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 12:50:58 am »
An experiment was done at MoJam a few years ago with a microwave for bending wood. I think it was successful. There may have been an article in PA about it. ???    Pat
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline waterlogged

  • Member
  • Posts: 74
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 04:40:34 am »
I'd be careful playing around with a microwave... those things are designed to be perfect waveguides for standing microwaves (entire graduate physics books are devoted to waveguides, just to give you an idea of complexity). The box isn't just a metal box, in other words. Plugging it with tin foil would probably just do the same as sticking tin foil in it and turning it on, though not as quickly. You'd be better off plugging it with rubber or some type of microwave safe plastic, though that'd do little to stop them. Keep in mind that practically anything metal or with water in it will get extremely hot. You could use one for bending small pieces of wood or drying them without modification, I've done both myself, but I would not reccomend trying to modify it. If you do, though, don't stand in front of it.

Oh yeah, and they do not cook from the inside out, they cook from the outside in like everything else.
Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. ~Emo Philips
I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones. ~Albert Einstein
Location: Northern California and Northern Nevada

Offline DanaM

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,211
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 07:53:24 am »
Pats right there was an article in PA about using a microwave to heat wood for bending. The author put a
hole in the front and back so anysection of the bow could be heated. It works but like any other method there
advantages and disadvantages.
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline Hillbilly

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,248
  • I like tater tots.
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 08:36:37 am »
Yeah, I remember reading that article. I think I'll stick to regular heat sources.:)
Smoky Mountains, NC

NeolithicHillbilly@gmail.com

Progress might have been all right once but it's gone on for far too long.

Offline islandpiper

  • Member
  • Posts: 635
  • "Just one more bow, OK?"
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 09:45:25 am »
(yep, that stirred up the troops.   Gave y'all something to think about besides the election)

Piper

Offline Ryano

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,578
  • Ryan O'Sullivan, North Western Pennsylvania
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 10:13:23 am »
I know a guy whos done it, but I'm not going to try it anytime soon. Sounds kinda dangerous.
Its November, I'm gone hunt'in.......
Osage is still better.....

Offline Canoe

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
  • Progress - Not Perfection
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 10:54:53 am »
Howdy Group,

As WaterLogged had mentioned, microwaves are complex. 
And, the microwaves in microwave ovens are designed to excite water molecules in the food (or wood) placed inside the oven.

People are made mostly of water.

Microwave safe plastic, does it block microwaves or allow the microwave to pass through unaffected?
Aluminum foil, does it block ALL or some of the microwaves?

The idea of heating small wood pieces to bend (or heat treat) sounds interesting, but Modifying a microwave oven, by cutting a hole in it, is DANGEROUS!!

DON'T DO IT!!

Canoe
(Yes, I took plenty of physics course while in college.)

"Nature is a mutable cloud which is always and never the same."  - R. W. Emerson

"Wilderness is not a luxury, but a necessity of the human spirit."    -Edward Abbey

Offline waterlogged

  • Member
  • Posts: 74
Re: Crazy, possibly out of place, heat treating question
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 04:23:05 pm »
Canoe -

Microwave safe plastic I would guess blocks some of the waves, and aluminum foil blocks pretty much all of it... and turns it directly into heat. This heat will first cause flaming pieces of the metal to fly off (sparks) but a little while later will cause it to rapidly oxidize (burn) and turn into a light gray powder.

As to it effecting the human body.... as canoe said, it excites the molecules, which basically means it heats them up. This is ok for a bit with the human body, but if you get a molecule excited next to DNA... that could cause cancer. Probably won't, and you'd probably need to use the thing several times, standing in front of it, to even have much of a chance of getting it, but still not something that you'd want to mess with.

As a side note: adding metal into the box in any way changes the fundamental frequency of the box, and could overload the magnetron that makes the microwaves. In other words, slowly break it.

A microwave works really well for bending smaller pieces of wood, like the recurves for a horn bow, if you stick the wood you want to bend in a cup full of water, and stick it in the microwave for a while, watching it close, and let it boil for a bit. Works great. If you could find a microwave big enough to do a shortbow, that'd be cool. Modifying one, not so much.

Waterlogged (year away from a physics degree)
Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps. ~Emo Philips
I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones. ~Albert Einstein
Location: Northern California and Northern Nevada