Author Topic: nox glue?????  (Read 20700 times)

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Offline YewArcher

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2008, 04:47:03 pm »
Yes, those are both nasty chemicals. I did not know that they would make hide glue unsoluable. Thats intersting but how would you do it safely. If you could apply after the bow was sinewed i suppose you could do it controlled and in  asafe way........but if you have to mix it with the glue and be exposed while sinewing it would be a concern as sinewing is messy and you cant not get it on you.....or at least I cant.

have you used either?

Steve

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2008, 05:26:18 pm »
Both....  ;) I mixed some in a bowl and let it dry. Then I filled the bowl with water on top of the hard hide glue.  It never did dissolve.  :o

I sinewed the bow and let it dry good. Then I applied the potash/glue as a finish and kept it in the dark for a few days to dry good. After it was dry I put it in the light.  Formaldehyde is not super dangerous as long as you don't try to drink it.   :P  You can mix it in the glue then make darn sure your project doesn't get dry or cool. The other way is formaldehyde vapor on the finished project. Put it in a hot box with the heat on and a small container in the box. As it evaporates it permeates the hide glue and hardens it.  Like I said, these chemicals are found in most campsites only in less dangerous forms. Ask yourself how Natives waterproofed buckskin and what it was that made it waterproof.  Do a little research on bichromate of potash or chromate of potash. Potash is simple enough. The chemistry of chromate and bichromate hold a little more secret but you will discover a less dangerous form, not exactly the same but close enough, exists within reach of you at all times. Ill do a buildalong on a bow I have started that will shed a little more light on it, but I want some people to do some thinking like I did before I just tell all the answears. It took me months to figure out what (I think) the natives used, but I am convinced they had the knowledge.  :o Justin
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Offline YewArcher

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2008, 05:33:31 pm »
Thats real god info.

Whats interesting is that the NA may have had a way to actully waterproof there sinew bows?? I always guessed that they used fat.....wich will waterproof it enough to get by just not in down pours or extened stays in moisture.

I will think on it  ???.

Steve


Offline JackCrafty

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2008, 05:37:29 pm »
Hmmmm....smoke contains formaldehyde, but only in small amounts.  I guess if you smoke something long enough....

I don't know anything about bichromate of potash or chromate of potash, but it sounds like you might have discovered a mineral that can be burned to create the compound?  Sounds interesting.
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline YewArcher

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2008, 05:40:07 pm »
There ya go, i was thinking maybe ashes but that would not contain enough would it?

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2008, 05:47:12 pm »
Now your thinking....  Depending on what plants you burn you can increase the formaldehyde.

Potash is what it sounds like.... think getting the hair off of a hide.   Steve was thinking right on this one.  ;)
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Offline RidgeRunner

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2008, 06:08:17 pm »
Hay Justin:
What about that black crud in my chimney??
We are planning on cleaning the chimney this weekend.

David
David Key / N.W. Alabama

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2008, 06:18:29 pm »
Hmmmmmm.....mixing in 1% aluminum sulfate into a batch of hide glue will make it almost insoluble (after it dries)...that's fairly well know among woodworkers who use hide glue.  Justin, are you saying that adding potassium sulfate will do the same thing?
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2008, 09:30:06 pm »
I'm saying you can leach potash from hardwood ashes which when added to the other ingredient is almost exactly the same as bichromate of potash.
Aluminum sulphate, or you can get some of the benefit from alum in your wife's spice rack.

You hit on another point. Many fine woodworkers and especially those working with antique or expensive furnature use hide glue on their projects.  Why are we scared to use it on wood laminations?  Justin
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Offline Coo-wah-chobee

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2008, 12:14:04 am »
Now your thinking....  Depending on what plants you burn you can increase the formaldehyde.

Potash is what it sounds like.... think getting the hair off of a hide.   Steve was thinking right on this one.  ;)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Hahaha! "Depending on what plants you burn you can increase the formadehyde " AND the potash. Hahaha! You guys are banannas ! Hahaha !

Offline Pat B

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2008, 12:29:06 am »
This is interesting Justin. I never knew you were a chemist. Does your LE training have anything to do with it?   Making hide glue not water soluble is interesting to someone from the humid south east.    Pat
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2008, 02:36:11 am »
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Hahaha! "Depending on what plants you burn you can increase the formadehyde " AND the potash. Hahaha! You guys are banannas ! Hahaha !
You disagree Bob? ???
Nice to see you back.  Justin
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Offline Coo-wah-chobee

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2008, 10:12:44 pm »
Didnt say I disagree, just said
You guys are BANANAS ! ::)

Offline YewArcher

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2008, 10:20:03 pm »
I think he is ginving us a hint maybe. What do you get when you burn bannanas?

Steve

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: nox glue?????
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2008, 12:50:16 pm »
Quote
What do you get when you burn bannanas

Pissed off hungry monkeys........ ;D  Bananas are pretty high in potassium.....
Smoky Mountains, NC

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