Author Topic: thumb plan arrows???  (Read 7650 times)

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Shooter_G22

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thumb plan arrows???
« on: October 05, 2008, 01:02:46 am »
ok...   i have read the post here on how to make baord arrows but still not sure on the thumb plan method...   i think this is the easiest set up to get started.. right.. or at least the most inexpensive way to get started doing this correct???

i understand that you start out with 3/8" squar shafts and then plan the four corners until you have eight corners.. right and then repeat the process until you have a partially almost rond shaft and the either sand round or compress round useing a compression block like the one three rivers sells...  or is there another way to compress mabe a way to make your own compressin block???

but here is my question or questions:

1.  how do you plan the corners??  do you just hold the shaft straight and go to town or how do
     make a jig to hold the arrow???   plans please...  i dont have a roater so how do i make jig to
     hold the arrow properly???

2.  do i need to set the thumb plan blade a certian length or do i just use it the way it comes??
     
3.  can i make my own compression block??? if so how???  and useing the compression block.. it needs to be heated correct???  can i build a jig that holds the compression block and a propane torch with the flam on the block to have a continouse heat on the block so i dont have to stop and heat the block???

4.  on the 3 rivers catolog it says the compresion lock reduces the spine of an arrow??????  wouldnt compressing the wood make the wood more dense making the arrow stiffer and therefor incressing the spine???  can some on explain this to me???

5.  i have another question that is a little of the wall.... ( what the heck is Footings)????  or foot blanks..  i have seen them also in the 3 rivers catalog and they leave me scratchin my noggin like what the hell !  lol...    can some on explain and please post pics soo i can see these things and waht the are...

please post pics on all this stuff especaily the arrow shaft planing jigs to hold the arrows i'm thinking very seroiusly on starting to so this... and probably going to pick a thumb plane here in the next day or soo as soon as i make my way over to the lowes..  :)

oh also i was very interested in the dowel cutter that everybody talks of   but i dont know where to buy one of these and also i have seen an add or two in my traditional achery and primitive archery mags but they are all in the couple of hundred bucks range and i read a post onhere that said something about a $30.00 rig... can sombeody post me that info as well..thanks




jape

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 04:01:43 am »
I just hold the shaft to be planed between the edges of my table vice, but it is easy enough to play with a couple of lengths of wood on your bench top to squeeze/hold the shaft between - you can clamp them, use grips or screw down depending on how you treat your bench. Most of it just commonsense that comes to you as you actually have the stuff in front of you. Naturally those boards are thinner than the shaft so it sticks up allowing a full run with the plane, and maybe you will want an 'end stop' so the shaft doesn't move forward as you work it. If the plane is sharp, then it will smoothly glide along the shaft without the shaft trying to lift. There really isn't a best way except what you work out on your bench, with your tools when you get playing at this. Don't vice/clamp up too hard or you will crush the corners, just enough to grip so it doesn't move when you plane. I am sure someone else will have other ideas but I think that with a sharp tool, finding that light touch is best in all woodwork using hand-tools, it is a sweet balance you will find and enjoy as a woodworker that enables the best work, then only with power tools do you need hard clamping and fixing.

If you want to be a bit fancier, then when you get a sharp plane in your hands, vice up a board and mark out 3/16 from each side of one edge. In other words beveling the corner off, down the length. Do this with two bits and when you put them down together you will have a 'v' shaped groove where the two boards meet which makes holding the shaft in between them a lot easier and presents the shaft corners up for you to plane. Hope you can see that easily enough from my description, that way you can bevel two long edges on thicker boards and they will make a straight shallow 'v' groove where they meet up to drop the shaft into without need for any router!

But you can't do a lot of damage doing it wrong with hand tools as long as you use commonsense, i.e. don't nail the shaft down and try and plane through the nail! (we all do stupid things at times!)

The plane blade should be sharp when purchased and sharpening is another skill, but I would wind it back to almost the sole (flat bottom) of the plane and get a fine shaving on a scrap to start with, then you can adjust as you wish depending on the wood type and how it peels off under the blade. Try and work out grain direction, watch out for splinters as you do this, you can always get a nasty one in the web of your thumb to make your eyes water. Wood will plane smoothly one way with the grain, but ruck up and even chip when you go the wrong way.

I find it simple enough to run the plane down a corner of a square shaft, just lightly, and that is easy enough to give you a starting bevel, do that on all four corners, as evenly by eye as you cna and all of a sudden by turning and planing gently you have the eight you want. Then plane each of the eight and you get sixteen and so on. The corner edge is a natural straight line to plane down, start lightly and try for an even depth and width. easy enough to take a little off, then some more, but impossible to replace once it is gone, so just start easy.

I will leave the compression block stuff to others, never tried one.

Footings are inserts of hardwood usually used to lengthen, strengthen or alter the front weight of a shaft. They look a bit like billiard cues, or pool sticks for you colonials, you know where you get the lighter shaft and a darker end? It is not something to start with until you get tools worked out but there are buildalongs for this about if you want to try it. You can also add a 'foot' at the nock end to repair a broken arrow, strengthen a nock etc. It is just a way of splicing.

ZanderPommo posted the dowel cutter for $30 information but hasn't replied to my request for details yet. I can't find one anywhere near that price but I will visit a few car boot ummm sorry, car 'trunk' sales to find one.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 04:16:46 am by jape »

Offline ZanderPommo

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 01:23:36 pm »
what details do you want?
Zander

Offline ZanderPommo

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2008, 01:26:46 pm »
the place I got mine was Lee Valley tools online
Zander

Offline Pat B

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2008, 01:38:47 pm »
I made a jig to hold square stock while planing. It is a piece of 1" wood with a "V" groove down the center of its length and a stop(I used a glued in piece of wood) at one end.   You place your square stock with one edge in the "V" groove and plane the opposite edge, rotate the stock and go to the next edge until all four and then all 8 corners are removed.
   I have also just held the stock in my hand and with the plane in the other hand planed each corner. You will have more control with the first method.
   You can also use a draw plate to reduce square stock. A draw plate is a plate of steel with graduating smaller holes that you "draw" the stock through. Some folks use an electric drill motor to spin the stock while working it through the draw plate.
  Footings were originally used to repair broken arrows. Arrows and shafting were hard to come by so footings were used to repair broken arrows.Today they are used for that purpose but also for decoration and to add forward weight to your arrows.
   Below are a few(not so good)pics of the jig I made. I don't use it much because I prefer cane or hardwood shoot arrows.    Pat

[attachment deleted by admin]
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Arthur Herrmann

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 02:15:11 pm »
I have rounded more than 50 shafts, but less than 100. So I have a little experience. Arrows are the most important, but you cannot tell that from mine!  ;D

I simply hold the square in my left hand, the thumb (at the end of the shaft) on top of the portion that I want to remove. I have the plane in the right hand, and only do a little over half of the shaft. Once round, you can turn the shaft the other way and repeat... BUT! WHATCH THE GRAIN! If you go the wrong way, then it will dip in and chip up your pretty arra.

So to the other hafl, I just press the tip against the wall, lie the shaft on the work bench, use one hand to align the stock you want to remove. And do the other half. I just eye ball it. I probably confused you, so try and make sense of it and find your own technique, then you become fast.

The finer the shavings, the better. Keep the blade so you only take fine shavings off.

If you use the compressor, which I never have, don't worry about the spine. If you don't take too much off the shaft, then it should be just under 3/8, around 23/64. The spine of the arrow should be too high around 70 or 80 pounds. You might be shooting 70, 80 pound bows so I do not know. Fred G. Asbell said that he liked the compressed cedar, and that it really increased durability. He said buying them are expensive, so you doing it yourself might just be the ticket.

You can by 3/8 birch dowel, but you cannot control the density, and straightness like you can with your boards. I heard that you want dense, tight ringed, straight grained boards.

No matter what, they will break eventually unless you use fancy targets. I just like roving, and occasionally using my dads fancy target.

I have never used a dowel cutter, and my newest arrows are perfectly good. Even if I had much money, I am not sure if I would buy a dowel cutter.

Good luck!  :)

Offline wally

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2008, 05:15:24 pm »
fair play to you for making your arrows any way you can. :)
Have ever you thought of the simpler way, of using natural tree shoots like dogwood or beech? They can work very well. And of course river cane plus lots of other growing stuff ;D
and hey! Let's be careful out there

jape

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2008, 06:20:01 pm »
the place I got mine was Lee Valley tools online
Zander

well they have them at $189 for the basic set up for 1" dowel plus 'extras' such as the dowel inserts you need for arrows at $42.50 each - or a master set at just $349

http:// www. leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=42331&cat=1,180,42288
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 05:47:30 pm by Justin Snyder »

Offline ZanderPommo

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008, 06:29:04 pm »
in the subcatagory "drilling" click the first in the list

Zander

jape

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008, 11:14:20 pm »
Thanks very much ZP, an excellent find!

Shooter_G22

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 12:00:53 am »
jape,
 
   can you post the link to the item your talking about ( a great find ) ...    very curious to what it is????????????

jape

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 04:42:06 am »
http:// www. leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52401&cat=1,180,42288
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 05:48:06 pm by Justin Snyder »

Shooter_G22

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2008, 09:08:08 am »
hey,  WOW !!!

  there it is...  an affordable dowel cutter... and the sockets... to go with it... WOW...

thanks jape and zanderpommo...   this is defanantly something im going to send off for... might be a couple of weeks befor i send for it though... got a lot going on... and my bank is giving me problems might switch...


 but thanks for the info and great link...  i think i will still buy  a thumb plane and try that technique as well just to know and try both styles... but i am defanantly going to do this...
cuase arrow shafts here in dallas are hard to find and very expensive...
about 40-50 bucks a dozen...
and once i set up these two jigs and set ups i think it will cost me less than the price of a dozen and a half toi get set up and then i wont ever need to buy arrow shaft agian... that is defantly more my style...
i just hate having to spend 45 bucks on a dozen shafts when i know i could probably make them for a fraction of the cost...

thanks everybody...
i will defanantly absorb this knowledge and put it to good use in the next few weeks hopefully when iget set up i will be making nice arrow shafts and posting pics...
thanks again...

Offline Pat B

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 12:08:40 pm »
I have some ash shafts that Jamie Leffler sent me that he made using one of these jigs. They came out good.     Pat
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline ZanderPommo

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Re: thumb plan arrows???
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 03:09:28 pm »
ahh thats the one!!!

they kill ya on shipping though...like 10 bucks! so probably count on spending like 45 to be safe

Zander