Sinew Backed, Double Curve Bow

[Papa Matt]

Brothers, I read somewhere once that tips were often deflexed on NA bows, so that they could be strung for longer periods of time without causing the bow to tire out and take set. The example was given that NA bows for protection were often kept in the lodge or tipi strung in periods of fear of attack from other tribes, and the last thing you want to do when the warriors from an enemy tribe attack you at 4am is have to string your bow. This way, you leave it strung all night and just grab it in time of need, because in early morning surprise attacks, seconds count. I doubt that hunting bows would have been purposele deflexed, but the article definately talked about bows for protection being that way. And I'm sorry, I know you're dying to know where I read that, but I don't remember at all. That was back in the days when I was first starting out and read anything and everything I could find on bows because I didn't know a forum like this even existed where I could come and get info in one place.

~~Papa Matt

[JackCrafty]

Thanks Papa Matt...makes sense to me.

[Papa Matt]

No problem, Pat. Just sharing what I know for the benefit of all. I'm glad we can all learn from things like this, thanks for doing the buildalong.

I noticed on your list of woods that hold the handle reflex well, you have Elm before Locust. Does this mean that for a double curve style, you prefer Elm over BL?

[JackCrafty]

Papa Matt. Nope, I do not prefer elm over locust.  Elm just seems to hold its shape better.

[Papa Matt]

It does? I have never worked with Elm before, and have only worked with a few BL. Is it easier then, for an Elm to take less set than a BL, all esle being equal? I would have guessed Elm would hold shape less, being a white wood. Enlighten me.

[JackCrafty]

Papa Matt, overall I think Black Locust is superior to Elm as a bow wood.  That said, I tend to make the kid's bows out of elm because of the abuse the bows take.  Elm bends extremely well with steam and I can induce quite a bit of reflex into the bows...or whatever shape I want.  And after taking a lickin', elm keeps on kickin' when locust would have broken.


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[JackCrafty]

Here's a couple links to an elm bow made by Marc St Louis (hope he doesn't mind).

http://marc.stoneflake.net/Selfbows/Elm%20Recurved%20D%20Bow/Combination%20Braced.jpg
http://marc.stoneflake.net/Selfbows/Elm%20Recurved%20D%20Bow/

The bow has maitained 3" of reflex.

[Papa Matt]

Pat, I think my question really is about set. All else being equal, both woods dried out as good as can be, same optimal shape for each wood, which in your experience takes less set...the Elm? Sorry for all the questions. I've just never really worked with Elm, and have a couple staves lying around. So I'm trying to feel for the best style of bow for them.

~~Matt

[JackCrafty]

Hmmm...The simple answer is that I don't know.

I think BL would take less set before breaking.....but BL will break before elm does.  Does that help?

[Papa Matt]

Yeah, I think I gotcha.     And I very much appreciate you responding to all my questions. I just can't decide whether to make a longbow from my Elm or a shorter style, like maybe one of these double curves. I recently made a BL double curve, sort of by accident. I wish I could post pics, I feel so guilty enjoying all the pics from other guys on here and then not holding up on my end by never posting any and always typing pure text. But the BL that I recently made into a double curve by accident, is somewhat longer than the traditional plains style, it's 66" NTN and had a nice ammount (about 3.5") of reflex in it naturally when it was cut. I once saw what was described as a "navajo style" bow, with a very long handle, it looked to me about 10" fade to fade, and I assume it bended slighly. So I designed my 66 incher with that in mind and it has about a 10" handle, which is where all the reflex is stored and it bends slightly. The bow is made and done, I just haven't shot it yet because a while back I broke 3 bones in my shooting hand and it's still not quite strong enough to pull it all the way back. I estimate it will be about 65# at 26". But when braced at 4.5" it looks like a longer version of what you're making here, with the reflex in the handle more spread out (over the 10 inches, instead of in a V).  Anyway, the point is, I sort of already have a double curve, and the Elm staves are calling my name. I guess I might go longbow style with them.

[donnieonetrack]

Patrick,

Thanks for the build-a-long.  I'll be watching this closely, love the short native bows!!!!!

Haven't cut the wood yet, but should be any day.

Thanks again,

Donnie

[M-P]

Hi Folks,  I'm waiting eagerly to follow this build along.  In the meantime,  I just had an idea for another reason that te double curve may have been favored by groups that were largely horse archers.  I've noticed that low braced bows are a lot easier to string.  I have trouble imagining how a heavy weight bow could be strung while on horse back, but a low brace height would have helped.    Ron

[Knocker]

Hey Papa Matt,

I'll help you out with the photos.  Just send me a couple of your favorite bows and I'll photograph and post them for you....

Keith

[Papa Matt]

 

[Postman]

Nice bows -  - keeping my eyes open for a chunk of wood with that initial shape. What is the  draw length / pounds on the 47"  and what are you trying for on the 49 incher?

Also, do you think shooting 3 under is adviseabe with these types?
Thanks for the buildalong, and love the pic of the young archer