Author Topic: VIKING BOWS!!!  (Read 68602 times)

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Offline ballista

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2008, 10:44:55 pm »
 haha sounds like youre a burly norweigan viking to me- im half norweigan and half greek. anaways, i just wanted to add in the hommleguard was widely used throughout northern europe, if you're longbows, god forebid, just dont o the trick, hommleguard style bows are some of the most primitave in the books. they are made from small diameter trees, the middle of the tree becoming the bow's crowned back. i'd l0ve to say i knew alot about the viking era, but the peoples of PA have said everything i think there ws to say. good luck- post a picture or two f it turns out well. -jimmy ;D
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Offline bow-toxo

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2008, 05:58:26 pm »
Bow-Toxo
If you are not Nordic, then it is obvious, or if you are Nordic by blood and are not told the history since your birth then it is also quite obvious. I have many medals, and pendants from super long ago(From Norway) They picture Ullr, our god of the hunt, and of Archery, he always draws his bow to his chest, if that is a cultural symbol, that would mean that an overwhelming number of our bows must also do just that. Just my observation. its funny given my height and stature, it is actually quite comfortable, and somehow accurate for me to use a longbow drawn to my chest, maybe its jsut natural for Vikings to draw like that, evolution baby! woo!! lol ;D
=
 I doubt that people's blood gives them histoeical knowledge. Here in Canada, police taught Indian kids to paddle canoes because they didn't have a clue. I make authentic Celtic and Viking jewellery and have studied Viking culture for 50 years without seeing those medals and pendants. There are ancient carvings and pictures of men drawing to the chest when using short bows but the  known Viking bows are longbows that are made long to shoot long arrows that were drawn to the ear in medieval times..

Offline uwe

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2008, 08:20:44 am »
The short bows bows are even designed on the tapestry of Bayeux. It wonders, why are these bows made so short on the tapestry and why are they as long as the archer in reall? Any idea?

Offline Loki

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2008, 12:25:34 pm »
Artist's interpretation probably.The Bayeux tapestry was commisioned by Bishop Odo of Bayeux (Normandy),there's no record of the Embroidery until 1476 so it's not established who done the work' but it was most likely made in Normandy.Who's to say how many of the Norman ladies who done the sowing knew what the Bows were supposed to look like?
Durham,England

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2008, 01:07:53 pm »
Who says the tapestry was embroidered by Norman ladies?  Perhaps nuns, yes, but most likely monks.  And monks were most likely well acquainted with archery....as many monasteries were built with various defensive features designed for archers.
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Offline Loki

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2008, 02:56:12 pm »
No one,pure speculation on my part!

Didnt know Norman Monk's sold Tapestry's,sorry.
Durham,England

Offline Sparrow

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2008, 03:23:19 pm »
HA !  Young Viking....  Good to have you here. It seems you have been given enough info to get you started on this archery road. Be warned however that this road can lead to many more roads,you'll be making your own arrows and gear and maybe clothes and you'll have wood shavings in your house and.......those that share this road can be out-spoken and opinionated. Ha !....It's a good road. Look forward to your post. Make some shavings !   Frank
Frank (The Sparrow) Pataha, Washington

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2008, 03:42:19 pm »
The short bows bows are even designed on the tapestry of Bayeux. It wonders, why are these bows made so short on the tapestry and why are they as long as the archer in reall? Any idea?
=
 
Easy. Both long bows and short bows [usually for hunting only] were used by the same groups of people at the same time.

Offline Dane

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2008, 06:43:38 pm »
Who says the tapestry was embroidered by Norman ladies?  Perhaps nuns, yes, but most likely monks.  And monks were most likely well acquainted with archery....as many monasteries were built with various defensive features designed for archers.

I think Loki is right, actually. I have read that the tapestry was in fact done by women, and that the quality was far inferior, too, but can't recall where I read it. Monks doing embroidery seems somehow wrong to me, though if you can point this out, I'd be interested in learning more. Embroidery was strictly a woman's job back in the 15th century. 

http://www.regia.org/SaxonArchery.htm

That is a link to an article on the Regia site on bows during Anglo Saxon times. It might interest folks. and does discuss different kinds of bows.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Loki

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2008, 07:30:35 pm »
Hey Dane!  ;D
The Tapestry was likely made soon after the battle,probably in the 1070's but there isnt any written record of it until the 15CE when it was mentioned in Bayeux's Cathedrial treasury.I still find it hard to imagine monk's doing the needle work though,11CE or 15CE.

P.S i must get an email to you!
Durham,England

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2008, 11:58:53 am »
In the spirit of beating a dead horse, let me continue by posting my reasons for suspecting the Tapestry was made by monks:

1.  The work was commissioned by a Bishop (big hint here...I could rest my argument on this alone).
2.  During the time period in question, literacy was not common...and there are embroidered words on the tapestry.  Guess who were usually the only literate people around?  Yep, monks.
3. Monks were quite familiar with fabric and sewing.  They not only mended their own clothing, they raised the sheep, and , I suspect, spun wool, operated looms, and used dyes.
4.  The Tapestry is not a tapestry...it is a cloth scroll.
5.  Monks were scribes...it was their job (among other things) to record important events.  Here's the alternative:  "Hey, lets get the ladies' sewing club to record the King's conquest, the monks don't have a clue about these kinds of things."  Somehow, I don't think so. ;D
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
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Offline Dane

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2008, 12:32:32 pm »
Patrick, this is fun, and is intended in the spirit of the thing.

Here is a quote from the dreaded Wikipedia:

Since the earliest known written reference to the tapestry in a 1476 inventory of Bayeux Cathedral, its origins have been the subject of much speculation and controversy.

French legend maintained the tapestry was commissioned and created by Queen Matilda, William the Conqueror's wife, and her ladies-in-waiting. Indeed, in France it is occasionally known as "La Tapisserie de la Reine Mathilde" (Tapestry of Queen Matilda). However, scholarly analysis in the 20th century shows it probably was commissioned by William's half brother, Bishop Odo. The reasons for the Odo commission theory include: 1) three of the bishop's followers mentioned in Domesday Book appear on the tapestry; 2) it was found in Bayeux Cathedral, built by Odo; and 3) it may have been commissioned at the same time as the cathedral's construction in the 1070s, possibly completed by 1077 in time for display on the cathedral's dedication.

Assuming Odo commissioned the tapestry, it was probably designed and constructed in England by Anglo-Saxon artists given that Odo's main power base was in Kent, the Latin text contains hints of Anglo Saxon, other embroideries originate from England at this time, and the vegetable dyes can be found in cloth traditionally woven there.[1] [2] [3] Assuming this was the case, the actual physical work of stitching was most likely undertaken by skilled seamsters. Anglo-Saxon needlework, or Opus Anglicanum was famous across Europe.

I can't imagine the monks saying "guys, Vespers in ten minutes, then come see the fabulous new silk embrodary threads that came in today." :) Remember, the Church was mega-powerful and wealthy, so they could job it out to whoever they wanted. Bishops were as powerful as kings back when the Tapestry was created.

And time and again, copiests literally copied whatever was put in front of them. Each iteration usually created some errors, compounded over time. Someone doesnt have to read to copy letters such as you see on the tapestry, and the cartoons (or whatever the patterns are called) were simply executed carefully by whoever was charged with the actual embroidery.

And, remember that ladies were expected to learn these fine arts as part of a ladie's education, as well as music and such. They may well have been literate, too.

Your turn :)

Dane

Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2008, 12:51:35 pm »
Lord:
"My Ladies, a commission of embroidery has been assigned to you.  It is a depiction of the King's conquest."
Lady:
"My Lord, we doth protest.  Wars are icky."
Monk:
"My Lord...I'll do it for free.  ;D"
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 12:59:10 pm by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline Dane

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2008, 01:21:06 pm »
Okay, you win. That kind of logic is hard to argue against.

My wife is always telling me "If we women were in charge, there would be no war." And I reply that war and opening jars is men's work. Besides, I'd not want a chick next to me in combat. I'd tell her cover me while I throw this granade, and she would refuse. Her nail polish is still drying. :)

I really do think women did the actual embroidery work. And women were known to hang out in monastaries, after all. :)

In any case, I dont think you can trust literarlly a somewhat crude iconographic work like the Tapestry to tell you anything about what kinds of bows William and Harald's men used. Normans, though of Norse ancestry, were not Vikings. And the Anglo Saxons they were fighting were of Germanic heritage.

They also had terrible haircuts all around.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: VIKING BOWS!!!
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2008, 01:37:25 pm »
In any case, I don't think you can trust literarlly a somewhat crude iconographic work like the Tapestry to tell you anything about what kinds of bows William and Harald's men used.

Makes sense.

(I wonder if the haircuts would have been different if women were in charge? ;))
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr