Author Topic: Paleo flint sources, New York State  (Read 35989 times)

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Offline Dane

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Paleo flint sources, New York State
« on: September 11, 2008, 06:55:05 pm »
Hi, this is probably the first time I have written in this forum, but I hope someone can help.

Does anyone happen to know the location of flint in the Northeast? I was looking at a book, and it stated that there were three main paleo flint sources in Little Falls, Mohaw River, NY, Coxackie, Hudson River, NY, and Catskill, Hudson River, NY. All there locations are fairly close to me, and actual campsites are only a few miles from me, in Deerfield, Monatgue, and Chicopee, Massachusetts.

If not the actual sites, anyone sell flint or other type of knapping stone that would have been used in Paleo times in North America?

Thanks much,

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Otoe Bow

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 11:15:06 pm »
Hey Dane:  I've never been to NY, but the best places to look for flint or other knappable material is to go to a creek or river bed.  Look for rock that either has a concrete outer covering and has a glass bottle type "ring" sound to it when you strike it with a rock or bone or has a shiny outer surface, (nature has broke the rock up and hence the lack of the outer concrete).  Road cuts are also a good place to find rock that is readily exposed.  If it knapps, there is a good bet that paleo folk used it in some fashion or other.  Rock hunting is now one of my favorite things to look for when I'm out stomping around. 

If you want to buy some rock, Missouri Trading Company sells some good stuff.  Most is local to the Ozarks, but some of it is probably more common than to just that area.  If you want to try "cheap" stuff to get started, glass bottle bottoms, porcelain toilet tanks or other types of glass all are good free learning material.   

 
So far, I haven't found any Osage or knappable rock over here.  Embrace the suck

Offline Dane

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2008, 10:04:25 am »
Thanks, Otoe Bow. It is not exactly just for my own personal purposes, but also for a larger project I hope to get off the ground. Part of what I want to do at the club I'm with now is to create a primitive skills and life program, and it will focus on Paelo through early colonial periods in this part of New England. That includes making tools from known local sources of stone - even if conjecture, the closer I can get to stone sources used by peoples of this area of Western Mass, all the better.

Ideally, I want to build a small settlement or camp, and that means eventually making stone tools to create the village.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2008, 11:09:07 am »
Dane, NY has Normanskill chert and Onandaga chert. Try googling those cherts or formations, should narrow your search a bit.
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Offline Dane

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 06:52:24 pm »
Thanks, Hillbilly. I will do that next week. BTW, any ideas about knappable rock in Western MA?

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline ricktrojanowski

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 07:24:22 am »
Dane- I've been trying to get some info on NY stone as well.  I've been getting nowhere.  Jamie was telling me of an area around the CT river in Vermont.  I'm going to keep trying to get some locations.  If you find any places I would be glad to go rock hunting with you. ;D.  I know by me on LI, the natives knapped white quartz .  Most of the stuff you find is that, really thick and lumpy points, but I can't imagine trying to knap that stuff.
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Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 08:22:07 pm »
Yep! They worked what they had. But I bet ya it worked just as well on the animals they hunted as the fine cherts and flints back your way.
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline ricktrojanowski

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 08:44:40 pm »
You're right about that.  If it didn't they would have had to go vegetarian ;D
Traverse City, MI

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2008, 08:52:16 pm »
Vegitarians? Shocking! Absolutely SHOCKING!!!
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline Dane

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 10:28:31 am »
Dane- I've been trying to get some info on NY stone as well.  I've been getting nowhere.  Jamie was telling me of an area around the CT river in Vermont.  I'm going to keep trying to get some locations.  If you find any places I would be glad to go rock hunting with you. ;D.  I know by me on LI, the natives knapped white quartz .  Most of the stuff you find is that, really thick and lumpy points, but I can't imagine trying to knap that stuff.

Maybe we can make a day of it. I will do some more looking, and let you know. As well, I was tramping through the woods of Vermont, near Grafton, searching for a couple of abandoned soapstone quarries for other projects. I was close, and will be going back again soon. It is an "epic story," if you guys want to hear it.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline ricktrojanowski

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 11:02:08 pm »
Dane-
Lets hear it.
Traverse City, MI

Offline stickbender

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 11:59:27 pm »

     Mmm.  Look chief granola head, little white chocolate, and double latte have come back from hunt.  Look like they have good fortune hunting.  Lots of wild asparagus, oh, and brocoli too!  Looks like big feast tonight huh chief? Ugh!! Where my corn mash?

                                                                                Wayne

Offline Dane

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2008, 09:30:36 am »
You got it Rick. I'll get it posted after work today.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2008, 08:44:43 pm »
A few Fridays back, I decided to try and find two early 19th century soapstone quarries located near the village of Grafton, Vermont. One use of the stone is for atlatl weights, and I can find a lot of other uses for the material. And, getting some from an abandoned old historic quarry seemed like a fun thing to do.

To get there, I took I-91 North over the Vermont line, and then traveled to Putney, about a 40 minute drive. I love Putney, it is very tiny, and has one of the best open pit bbq joints I have ever eaten at, Curtis’ All American, which consists of two old blue school buses without wheels and a big open hardwood pit, a few picnic tables, and a grassy area. After driving through the main part of the village, I took the road that passes through Westminster Parish and then into Saxtons River. The river, apparently, was named after someone from colonial times who drowned in it.

Another road took me after about 10 minutes into the village of Cambridgeport, Vermont. At the sharp turn in the road that takes you into town, there is a stone shell of a defunct woolen mill. Sheep were introduced into this area in the 1800s for large-scale wool production, but that is long past, as is the soapstone trade.

Once, Cambridgeport, founded in the late 1700s had, like almost every little town and village in the state, a much denser population. Today, there are less than 600,000 people living there, and there is an emptiness to the state that I have not encountered anywhere else, including out in the Mohave Desert. It is a strange feeling, considering how many settlements are here, but there is also more than one ghost town here, too. In the middle part of the 19th century and forward, there was a huge migration of people traveling out west, and the hills all over Vermont show the mute testimony of many abandoned farms, the only thing remaining being the cellar holes and what seems like endless old stone walls that once enclosed pens and fields. There were once six schools here, all long gone. Little towns like Mechanicsville are gone too, and one town I talked to a local historian about (the name of the town escapes me) is known to her as the Bermuda Triangle Town; one day, everyone just left, leaving behind everything. Normally, buildings were burned to the ground, so the owners could recover the nails when they started a new farm in Ohio or places further west, but in this case, the population just walked away, and it isn’t shown ever on a modern map.

This is a part of Vermont that tourists simply don’t go to very often, and that is why I love that area so much. There is a kind of eeriness to it too, as if you can almost feel the ghosts of long gone farmers and merchants still traveling the narrow roads, unseen but felt. I did see one ghost a few times along a road coming in to work when I had a job near Grafton about 10 years ago, which is why I even know about the area. Around here is the Bennington Triangle, and they have their own monster who once roamed the empty woods and fields, and a number of people allegedly vanished in the 1950s near here. It does feel that way, a kind of emptiness you may or may not have experienced. And it feels very much like you are not all that welcomed in these out of the way places. Vermonters have a term for the rest of us, “Flatlanders,” and it is not a good thing to be called that unless in jest.

After traveling though Cambridgeport, which has about six houses and one empty commercial multiuse building and a dingy, dim old country store, I took another road about 7 miles to Grafton itself. I did take a bit of time to try and find the old millrace that used to supply power to some mills here, but like the buildings, the race has vanished.

Grafton is now famous for one item, Cheddar cheese (and it is very fine, if you come across some, get it, it is expensive but very worth it), but once, it thrived on all kinds of agriculture, as well as wool and soapstone. It was, in fact, the single largest source of soapstone in all of New England. There were a number of soapstone mills around here, notably one owned by the firm of Butterfield and Smith. You can still see Butterfield’s old mansion in Grafton, not far from a wonderful old, if narrow, covered bridge and the tiny historical society museum. Grafton is also odd in that it is nearly all owned by a foundation that bought the town in the 1970s and rebuilt it. I would not be surprised if the Stepford Wives lived here. If you want a Currier and Ives New England Town, Grafton is your kind of place. The hotel had some famous guests once, including Oscar Wilde and Rudyard Kipling, who lived in Vermont, near Brattleboro, and wrote some of his greatest works here, stange to say.

I found an old map from the 1860s that showed clearly where the quarries were, and did a recon with Google Earth. The road I wanted was called Kidder Hill Road, and traveled up Bare Hill and then back down toward Cambridgeport. About half way between the two towns were the quarries. The Goodrich Quarries was the big one, and just next to it was the Smith Quarry. They are so large, I thought, I should have no trouble finding them if I follow the old wagon road. Other old, abandoned concerns next to these two quarries were the Butterfield and Smith building and the Steam Soapstone Mill.

Now, I was about to cross the old 37 foot kingpost covered bridge, built in about 1866 by long forgotten builders, but huge signs warned “dead end.” I decided I should ask in town,  just to be sure. The woman in the museum was really cool, and she showed me the entire collection in about 10 minutes. She had never been up the quarries, but said she was told you keep walking until you fall in, which was not exactly comforting. The bridge was indeed safe to drive over, and Kidder Hill Road goes up a mile and a half or so, but you can’t park at the end of it, where it then turns into a narrow trail, which was once the wagon road from the quarries down to Grafton. There is one family living in a stone house just where the trail starts, and I asked if they would shoot me. Naw, don’t worry about it. The old lady that used to live there would shoot at you, but she, not only trigger happy, was once the unofficial poet laurite of the state, and the matriarch of a huge family. Here husband on their wedding day promised her a store-bought dress is she bore him 20 children. She only had 19, so we both assumed she never did get that dress.

So, no crazy old gun-wielding poets to worry about, I drove past what was the WC Putnam Forest. It was the strangest state forest I have seen, in that there was the big sign, but it was adjacent to the old single lane wagon road, with no place to stop, no maps, no trails, just a sign and dark, closed forest in all directions. I guess you have to pack in there, and if you need a ranger, forget it.

I finally found a tiny side road, parked there, and hiked about ¼ mile up the steep road, past the stone house, and then was pretty much in the woods. On both sides of the road you could see the old stone walls of the abandoned farms, and it was very quiet in there. I could see that almost no one went in there, as I saw no garbage at all the whole time I was searching for the quarries, aside from one beer can about a mile past the stone house.

I only carried a folding clip belt knife and a small bearded axe for harvesting a bit of stone in a canvas shoulder bag, and my cell phone, which was useless until you returned to I-91, as they are no cell towers anywhere around. I wasn’t particularly worried about defending myself, but you never know, too.

The road got progressively steeper as I tramped along, getting, I hoped, closer to the quarries, and wondering exactly why they called this Bare Hill, as it was far from barren, and almost a jungle of hardwoods, and somewhere in those trees, the sites of A Amsden and CE Ross's farms, and the Davis Homestead.

To be continued soon.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2008, 08:57:55 pm by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline stickbender

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Re: Paleo flint sources, New York State
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2008, 02:01:15 am »

     Well hurry up Dane, it's like buying a book, only to find the last two pages torn out!

                                                           Wayne