Author Topic: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge  (Read 96835 times)

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Offline Skeaterbait

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #165 on: August 20, 2008, 09:53:17 am »
Ever wonder if the method was left to the bowyer? Perhaps those that contracted for the bows put a set of standards in place and as long as the bow met those standards they were used?

Just a thought that ran through my head, I'll go back in hiding now. ;D

Offline Kegan

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #166 on: August 20, 2008, 03:17:21 pm »
Wow, who knew such a simple bow could be so complicated :o!

But I've got several more roughed out and drying- a sassafras, hickory, and white oak. I want to see how quickly I can go from tree to finished bow with the sassafras, since it dries so quickly.

Offline Jaro

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #167 on: August 21, 2008, 06:27:48 am »
What I imagine is that those things come with technology itself rather than set of rules which is artificially imposed from higher authorirty.

Imagine yourself to be a bowyer, or better yet aprentice. You get stave which is almost twice as wide as typical bow, it still has all the sapwood and perhaps bark, which is chipping off. It is also very long.

To lay out the bow, you would probably clean it briefly, look for deffects and trim sides, but not very much. Then the sapwood thinning comes, again to reveal any defects, if present. (Constant bickering about the wood quality seems to be bread and butter of medieval bowyer).  The aim is to make the bow as heaviest the stave allows, because lighter bows can be made from worse quality staves in numbers aplenty. When the sapwood is worked down, the taper for width will be laid out as to chose cleanest availble strip and rough shape chipped out with small hand axe.
Then either spokeshave or rasp is used to clan up the sides and the edge of back is scraped into radius.
That is the point where according to experience and in accordance to width the thickness will be laid down and again chiped or worked down with drawknife.
There are small flat areas on sides of biggest MR profiles, which suggest that this was a common practice - to start clean work with squared stave.
That is the point where experienced person has to start work on rounding the belly and the tiler, but with very much experience the shaping can be done without need to tiler much and then again somebody else will set the nock.

Imagine the workhsop where perhaps master, two or three aprentices and journeyman or two work. The master does what is most difficult and the rest according their best abilities, or they rotate among the workplaces.
Our big mistake is to think that a single bow is a single mans work. Perhaps three or four people worked on one bow as it went through the workshop - to make lots of them in row. So standartisation of process (even though not standartisation of dimensions) will be desirable.

Some things about technollogy as the idea of tools or sucession of steps which were taken can be derived from the product when we look closely. For example - lighter collor on the tips of the bows shows where the horn was and normally it goes around the tip, altough not much care is taken about the edge of horn or things like this, but there is one MR bow which has discoloration reaching into horn area on both sides of the tip. That is without doubt a mark of that the bow had the tips narrowed for better cast with no regards to horn tips after it was made and perhaps shot in (and found dissatisfiing in cast).

Jaro





Offline D. Tiller

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #168 on: August 21, 2008, 04:52:15 pm »
Thanks for the info Jaro. But what I'm having difficulty picturing is the taper from grip on out to the tips. I think from what you have mentioned the there is, at the beginning, even taper from handle to aprox. midlimb then a reduction and tapering to around 1/2" - 3/4" at the nock. Then the bow is tillered on the sides but not the belly? Is the belly wood tapered at all or just left the same thickness from the handle to the tips or does it also taper from its full width at the handle to 1/2" -3/4" at the tips?

Thanks again!

David T
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline PaulN/KS

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #169 on: August 24, 2008, 10:20:22 pm »
Well I've started whittling down my 1st try at an ELB and boy, this is the whitest white wood I've worked with. I notice that some elm is brown or reddish in the heartwood but this is all white. Nice thick growth rings tho... Have found some small knots so this could just be a "drill"...I need the practice anyway.

ThimoS

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #170 on: August 25, 2008, 09:23:36 am »
That's the right attitude Paul.

I've just started my 1st ever elm with red/brown heartwood. All the others were as white as ivory. I used maple stain over them when finished.

Offline PaulN/KS

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #171 on: August 25, 2008, 09:31:44 am »
Yep, "white as ivory" pretty well describes it... I'm just taking it one shaving at a time and we'll see how it comes out. It also has some twist to it. Does elm react ok to a little anti twist heat if I need to go that route...?

Offline PaulN/KS

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #172 on: August 26, 2008, 10:11:36 am »
OK, every shaving revealed more knot and it is at the mid limb point so looks like this won't make a longbow.  :( At least I might be able to salvage it for something else...

ThimoS

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #173 on: August 26, 2008, 08:36:39 pm »
Elm does very well with heat.

Offline PaulN/KS

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #174 on: August 27, 2008, 11:25:10 am »
Thanks for the input ThimoS. That's good to know.
Now, how well does it do if I try to stretch it...? :)

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #175 on: August 27, 2008, 05:06:45 pm »
Actually, the 1.1 ratio is about correct if you measure it at median line, if you go further to the limbs they get flatter and flatter, particullary in charracter areas.

J.
=============================================================================
I have a poster, Selection of Longbows, produced by Mary Rose Trust that shows four Mary Rose bows with cross sections every few inches, These show that these bows are not only not flatter at the ends but are flatter at midsection if anything. Where do you get your information from ?

Offline Cromm

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #176 on: September 11, 2008, 07:31:50 pm »
OK sorry it's taken so long to post pics of the Mendlesham bow,but here are some that I've taken.......
http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll229/Cromsbowman/?start=0


They are not that great but it was dark and there was a great big storm going on outside at the time,which made the place creepy!!!
Any Q's just ask......
Thanks for your time.
Great Britain.
Home of the Longbowman.

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #177 on: September 13, 2008, 02:22:39 am »
I made two bows of brownish elm that I got in Switzerland. When I tried them out they shot just as well as my yew bow but they very soon developed a lot of string follow. Please let us know how your elm bows turn out.

Minuteman

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #178 on: November 13, 2008, 08:04:15 pm »
Thought I'd bring this back up. Anyone done anything ww/elb related?

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: White Wood ENGLISH Long Bow Challenge
« Reply #179 on: November 13, 2008, 10:22:43 pm »
Nope! Had no time recently. Business is growing so no time fore me in bow shop.
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill