Dogbane-less Hickory shorty

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, here's my latest project.  Some of you might remember I badly scorched one of the tips with some over-zealous heat treating.  I scraped it down to sound wood and glued on a lamination from a hickory backing strap I had laying around.  I'm backing it with dogbane fibers from just up the mountain here, processed while watching tv with my girls.    Elk antler on the tips.  Put two layers of fibers on the back; now letting it dry for a couple weeks before I start tillering.

[bjrogg]

I remember that one WB.

I had some dogbane once. It does make nice fiber.

Bjrogg

[WhistlingBadger]

I remember that one WB.

I had some dogbane once. It does make nice fiber.

Bjrogg

I've made two-ply twine out of it, and it is seriously strong stuff!  Probably would make a bow string if I trusted myself with that.  Might try using it for sewing thread on my next leather project, though.

[hammerstone]

Excellent choice for backing WB. dogbane is one of the strongest natural plant fibers around and will definitely make a bow string also. took the family to Gila cliff dwellings many years ago and was very surprised to learn that the people their used ladders and ropes made of dogbane to access the caves there . Strong stuff.
Please keep us posted as to how it performs, I have considered using it as such myself.

[Aaron1726]

Looks good.  And yeah dogbane is awesome stuff.  Can't wait to see it finished.

[superdav95]

Yea cool project and a good way to save the project.  I’ve never used dogbane but on my list of things to monkey around with for bow strings. 

[Pappy]

Nice, can't wait to see it all finished up.
 Pappy

[WhistlingBadger]

OK, got this thing bending and had it to 55# at around 6" on the tree when the backing popped and an insta-hinge appeared.  (Yeah, this is seriously strong stuff!)  I got the pressure off it instantly, and the underlying wood seems undamaged.


Any ideas why this might have happened?  And what now?  Could I put another layer of fiber over the bad spot?  Fiber backings are new to me, though I did screw up a sinew backing once.

[superdav95]

Hard to say WB.  Maybe starved for glue???  I’ve never used dogbane it’s on my list of things to try out

[WhistlingBadger]

Hard to say WB.  Maybe starved for glue???  I’ve never used dogbane it’s on my list of things to try out

You might be right.  I also wonder if I mixed my glue too thin.  I think I'll paint the whole back with a layer of glue, then put a couple of layers over the break.  Then let it dry a couple weeks and continue tillering.  If it breaks again, I might just peel it and start over.  I wasn't as careful applying this stuff as I should have been.  I think a lot of the bundles were twisted, so the back didn't lay down smooth and I wonder if the fibers didn't adhere well.  That might be my problem too.

[Aaron1726]

What glue are you using?  I've done 2 that I backed with dogbane and a couple others with sisal fibers and I used thinned tb3. These all adhered really well

[willie]

What glue are you using?  I've done 2 that I backed with dogbane and a couple others with sisal fibers and I used thinned tb3. These all adhered really well

how did sisal compare to dogbane with the ones you backed?

did you back with fibers to help out an iffy back or maybe apply enough to act as a load carrying lamination, like  a bamboo backing?

[Aaron1726]

Willie, both seemed ok, but the dogbane is definately stronger.  Of those 4 bows I mentioned 2 have failed and 2 are still alive.  The 2 that failed were tiller issues.  The sisal bow that broke ripped right through the backing, but the dogbane one still had an intact back, just sort of folded as the wood failed.  Not extensive in comparison, but the dogbane is certainly stronger. 

These bows were backed not for performance, but rather as insurance against my rookie bow making abilities.  They were also board bows and the 2 failures were both red oak.

I started a thread about these backings a while back and there were some suggestions on sisal by Joachim using hide glue and inducing reflex with sisal as it stretches more than the dogbane would.  This might have some performance gains?  Can't say I have enough experience with it to say though. 

[WhistlingBadger]

What glue are you using?  I've done 2 that I backed with dogbane and a couple others with sisal fibers and I used thinned tb3. These all adhered really well

I'm using hide glue aka knox gelatine.

did you back with fibers to help out an iffy back or maybe apply enough to act as a load carrying lamination, like  a bamboo backing?

A little of both.  This bow is hickory heartwood, and I don't have the patience to chase rings at this point in my life, so I decided to back it.  The dogbane does seem to add some weight to the draw.  It's basically putting a couple layers of wood back on.

[willie]

years a go I prepared a couple of dozen samples did some  bend testing.

as I recall, 1/2 were hide glue and 1/2 were epoxy. in each half, 1/2 again were backed with flax and 1/2 again were a synthetic backing

both backings were stronger than the wood and the more backing aplied, the earlier the sample took set.
both hide glue and epoxy performed the same at typical bow stress levels. 

In the future, I would use  a fiber stronger than wood to reinforce an iffy spot on a back.