Dogbane-less Hickory shorty

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, I repaired the broken backing.  Got one crunchy sound that I think was just excess glue, but fairly smooth sailing since then.

Here it is at 40# on the long string.  Target weight is 55#; I plan to tiller it to 60# then scrape it down a bit.  Hopefully it will stabilize around 50# after it breaks in.

Opinions, please:  I'm seeing that the right limb is a little stiff.  Left limb had a bit of a hinge just off the fade, but it's looking better and curving more evenly now.  What say you?

[superdav95]

Well, I repaired the broken backing.  Got one crunchy sound that I think was just excess glue, but fairly smooth sailing since then.

Here it is at 40# on the long string.  Target weight is 55#; I plan to tiller it to 60# then scrape it down a bit.  Hopefully it will stabilize around 50# after it breaks in.

Opinions, please:  I'm seeing that the right limb is a little stiff.  Left limb had a bit of a hinge just off the fade, but it's looking better and curving more evenly now.  What say you?

Yes I would agree with that.  Some scrapes off right limb and see where you are at then.  Maybe little mid limb scrapes on the left one too.   Looking good though.  Be interesting to see how that backing holds up for ya this time. 

[WhistlingBadger]

Moved the tillering tree inside the garage and attached it to studs with 4" screws, instead of just into the side of the house.  It occurred to me the other day that if it popped loose at 50# of draw, it was going to hurt, and possibly make my face look even worse than it already does.

Got the thing to about 45# and the bends are looking decent, before it made another scary crunch sound.  No visible tears in the back, but I think it popped loose in one spot.  Maybe I missed a spot degreasing?  I don't know.  It's about the same place that it broke before, so maybe it just isn't connected down there.  Watch this and see what you think.

https://youtu.be/rlt-TBpWSDA

[superdav95]

I think your assessment is correct.  The sounds difference is pretty evident something came delam under there.  It痴 looking great though.  How are you glueing this down?  Are you using hide glue and what strength. Also are you ensuring a good size coats are done prior to adding the backing fibers.  I知 saying this as I知 assuming you would do the same size coats for dogbane fibres as you would with sinew fibres.  I size coat with very thing watery hide glue till it gets shiny when dry. Sometimes depending on the core and how pourus it may be this could take several thin coats to sink in deep into wood core.  This helps immensely with adhesion of backings like fibers.  Just a thought.   

[WhistlingBadger]

I think your assessment is correct.  The sounds difference is pretty evident something came delam under there.  It痴 looking great though.  How are you glueing this down?  Are you using hide glue and what strength. Also are you ensuring a good size coats are done prior to adding the backing fibers.  I知 saying this as I知 assuming you would do the same size coats for dogbane fibres as you would with sinew fibres.  I size coat with very thing watery hide glue till it gets shiny when dry. Sometimes depending on the core and how pourus it may be this could take several thin coats to sink in deep into wood core.  This helps immensely with adhesion of backings like fibers.  Just a thought.   

Yep, I used hide glue.  Not sure how to explain what strength...I try to mix it about as thick as pancake syrup.  I did size the back with a single layer of glue; made it nice and glossy.

Here's what I think might have happened.  The first time I started bending it, the backing broke.  I suspect I had a seam in the same place on both layers and that's why it broke.  (that's just a guess)  Whatever the case, when it broke I think it delaminated for a few inches.  Gluing a couple layers over it fixed the break, but didn't fix the delamination.

[superdav95]

Ah yes.  Makes sense. 

[WhistlingBadger]

You know, I shouldn't have posted about this in two different threads.  Thanks for responding to both.  ha ha

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, got this beast back on the tree today.  Had a hinge developing where I put the patch, so did some work around that.  Had a few crunch sounds early on; hopefully just glue cracking.  Was about to string it up for the first time when one of the antler tips popped off.  Glued it back on with some TB3; will string it up tomorrow.

[Selfbowman]

Glue may not be dry enough.

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, I got it braced and it looked really nice, but the glue delaminated in the same spot again. 

Glue may not be dry enough.

On the tips, you mean?  The bottle says you can stress joints after 24 hours.  Or do you mean the hide glue?  I figured two weeks was plenty of time here in dry Wyoming.

Anyway.  Might put this away and work on something else for a while...

[WhistlingBadger]

Got back to work on this.  Have it bending to about 6" at 30#, tweaking the bends, about 2" to go before I'll string it...when I noticed that there's a spot where some of the fibers have popped loose on the opposite limb, not the same spot as the previous failure.  Man.

I think what I'm learning here is that hide glue doesn't adhere all that well to dogbane, compared to sinew.  It takes a ton of glue, and wrapping with string or ace bandage, to make sure it won't come loose.  Or just use diluted TB3, but I really want to keep it as primitive as possible.  (I used TB3 on the tip repair, so maybe it doesn't matter)

So.  I guess I'll reglue this section, wrap it, wait another couple weeks, and get back to work on it.  In the meantime, I have some nice, reflexed juniper pieces and a bunch of sinew lying around...

[willie]

I think what I'm learning here is that hide glue doesn't adhere all that well to dogbane,

you may be correct as animal collegen probally has an affinity for sinew, nevertheless, hide glue has proven itself with cellulose in other applications.

what if you let the dogbane soak in the hot glue pot for a while and get soft? will it squish into shape better?

[WhistlingBadger]

I think what I'm learning here is that hide glue doesn't adhere all that well to dogbane,

you may be correct as animal collegen probally has an affinity for sinew, nevertheless, hide glue has proven itself with cellulose in other applications.

what if you let the dogbane soak in the hot glue pot for a while and get soft? will it squish into shape better?

Probably.  I think even soaking it in warm water to soften it up would help.  But I think the real key is using a lot of glue, then wrapping it tightly for several hours to make sure it really sets up. 

[WhistlingBadger]

Well, dang it, got this thing all dried out and started bending again.  Had it almost to brace, pulling about 35#, and crack, the backing broke.  In the same place.  Currently steaming it again to remove the backing from that limb.  I think I'll peel the backing off that entire limb and redo it, leaving the other one, since it seems to be solid.  I'm sure all this steaming has completely undone any benefit the wood got from heat treating.     Tempted just to pull off the whole backing and rawhide back it, but first I don't think it would be powerful enough to hunt with (and I'm kind of counting on this bow to hunt antelope this year) and second, dang it, I really want this dogbane idea to work.

[superdav95]

Totally understand this frustration.  This is the principle of the thing now.  You値l get it sorted out.