Author Topic: Old Bow Question  (Read 2933 times)

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Offline Gordon

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Old Bow Question
« on: December 14, 2023, 04:55:32 pm »
I am refurbishing an old bow that a member of my black powder club picked up at a gun show.  The bow appears to be made from a lemonwood board, has a handle lamination that looks like purple heart, no arrow shelf or pass, and self nocks. There is a label on it, but it is badly deteriorated so I can't tell who made it. I'm guessing that the bow was made in the 1930's or 40's. It's in decent shape except for the handle overlay starting to delaminate and some set in the outer limbs due to it being whip tillered.  The bow appears primitive in all regards except it is backed by a black paper-thin material. I've scrapped off the finish and the material does not appear to be either silk or fiberglass. Any ideas what it may be?
Gordon

Offline Pat B

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2023, 05:47:23 pm »
Could be compressed paper, Gordon. Some of those old lemonwood bows had what they called fiber backing, compressed paper. Somewhere around here I have an old York Archery catalog with a description of bows and some had the fiber backing. They cost $8 or $9 dollars with the backing.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Gordon

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2023, 07:08:07 pm »
Quote
Some of those old lemonwood bows had what they called fiber backing, compressed paper.

Ah, I bet that's what it is. I've been fixing the tiller on that old bow - lemonwood is a dream to work with a scraper. It's a shame you can't find that wood anymore.

Thank you, Pat!
Gordon

Offline Pat B

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2023, 12:34:25 am »
I've made a few lemonwood bows. It is a dream to work. Good luck with that one.   :OK
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Hamish

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2023, 03:41:58 am »
I've never used fiber, but I looked into it a few years ago. You can still buy it in the US, or even online from China. I think they use it for electrical boards, gasket material, and as colourful laminations in knife handles.
There was a story in an archery magazine, either PA or Instinctive Archer a couple of decades ago about a guy who was still shooting one of these lemonwood fiber backed bows, and it still worked really well.

I have a couple in my collection, black, and reddish brown fiber. I don't shoot them though they are still in good condition. You can often see them on Ebay.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2023, 10:33:57 am »
The backing is a material called "Fortisan" very common on bows before fiberglass came out.

https://www.archerylibrary.com/books/hickman/archery-the-technical-side/hickman/fortisan-for-backing-bows/

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2023, 11:10:32 am »
$8 for one?!!!! You are showing your age Pat.🤠🤠🤠
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline Pat B

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2023, 02:23:23 pm »
Arvin, I was born in 1950, those bows were in the 30's and 40's. I am old but not THAT old.  ;D
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Gordon

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2023, 02:26:25 pm »
Eric, thank you for the information, that is really helpful.
Gordon

Offline Hamish

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2023, 05:16:25 pm »
Hi Eric, I don't think this backing sounds like Fortisan. I have an old bow in my collection, which I believe to be yew backed with Fortisan. The bow  came to me broken(it wasn't when I bought it as part of an auction lot. Either the owner tried to draw it before shipping, or the freight forwarders, did when inspecting it for shipping over to me in Australlia).
Anyway, the backing appears as a sheet of industrial manufactured, long, straight, parallel fibres. It has the same colour as sinew backing, translucent, pale amber. I don't know if its current appearance is due to age(yellowed varnish) or whether it always looked the same). Where the break is the filaments look like strands of dental floss, just a lot stiffer, like long slivers of split bamboo, with no nodes.

The backing on Gordon's bow sounds just like the fiber backed bows in my collection, ie a flat, opaque, coloured  sheet, usually black or red, sometimes white. Fiber(Vulcanized Fiber) has no apparent fibre pattern, as its made from wood pulp, like paper.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2023, 07:17:40 pm »
Quote
iber(Vulcanized Fiber) has no apparent fibre pattern, as its made from wood pulp, like paper.

Hamish, you may be correct as the backing does not appear to have any discernable pattern. Do you have an idea of the time span during which such bows were constructed?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 07:32:56 pm by Gordon »
Gordon

Offline Hamish

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2023, 09:05:40 pm »
I think the process was invented in the mid 1800's, but I can't recall it being used in Archery tackle until the 20th century. The 1920's until the early 1950's seems to be the main period, for fiber. Fortisan was invented in the late 1800's, but I don't think it was used in archery equipment until the 1930's, "artificial silk" backing.
There were a lot of "silk" backed bows in the 1940's. Silk backing was more expensive than fiber. Whether this was genuine silk or Fortisan I do not know. I would have thought both materials would have been in high demand for military items during WW2, and thus in small supply during those years.
 All the old books from the early to mid 20thC, like The Flatbow, L E Stemmler, Robert Elmer's, feature the use of fiber backings. Many Catalogues eg Ben Bearson, Bear, York, Stemmler all offer either bows backed with Fortisan, or silk, or fiber(as well as rawhide, hickory and boo). They also offer backings of all materials for purchase by the hobby bowyer.

By 1950 fg relegated the perception of other backings into unfashionable, low technology material.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2023, 09:27:49 pm »
Thank you, Hamish, for the excellent information. The backing on the bow I am working on is paper thin, I wonder if it would actually hold down a splinter if needed?
Gordon

Offline Hamish

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2023, 11:41:05 pm »
 I think the fiber would be at least as good as rawhide, from what I have read. Due to the increased labour compared with an unbacked self/board bow, I don't think the old timers would have used it unless there was a noticeable benefit with safety/longevity.
Most bows backed with fiber were lemonwood. The grain is usually very straight, even and knot free. I have a bunch of lemonwood boards, though not the old Cuban Degame/lemonwood. It still grows in South America, and the Caribbean, and can bought at many exotic timber merchants in the US. Of all the boards I bought nearly all are straight enough to make full length selfbows. The ones that aren't you can usually get at least a set of billets from half the length.

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Old Bow Question
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2023, 07:45:43 pm »
I googled fortisan and one of the articles that came up was a newspaper article in 1945 in the New York Times saying that the military "flare cloth" fortisan was now going to be used in making girdles! (Some of you young folk will probably have to google "girdle")

Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.