Hide glue or ea-40 for goat hide backing?

[Selfbowman]

Had a selfbow with a pin knot trying to raise a splinter . I have two great looking goat hide strips to back it with. Recommended application please! Selfbowman does not do many bows with a backing.🤠

[Hamish]

I'm not saying epoxy wouldn't work, I've just never heard of anyone using epoxy with rawhide. It would also be very messy. How would you apply pressure on it without it soaking into the wrapping bandage?
Hide glue would be the most compatible, (and reversible). PVA (especially TB3) is also  a good choice. Both are long term, proven methods for applying rawhide backings and patches.

[Mo_coon-catcher]

I use TB3 after a light sandi with 60grit, or about there depending on what I have in hand to toughen up the surface.

Kyle

[Selfbowman]

I'm not saying epoxy wouldn't work, I've just never heard of anyone using epoxy with rawhide. It would also be very messy. How would you apply pressure on it without it soaking into the wrapping bandage?
Hide glue would be the most compatible, (and reversible). PVA (especially TB3) is also  a good choice. Both are long term, proven methods for applying rawhide backings and patches.

Maybe Dave will put one  of his Videos up for me.

[Selfbowman]

Yes I have tite bond 3 also.

[Pat B]

I've used TBIII with good results on rawhide and snake skins but now I prefer hide glue. Both the rawhide and hide glue are made of protein and it makes a good bond to the wood with a few sizing coats. As it dries it also "sucks" the hide to the wood giving good adhesion. I've never used epoxy for rawhide.
 Be sure to clean the rawhide and bow back well to remove oils. I wash the rawhide with warm water and Dawn detergent and rinse with warm water. I scrub the bow back with hot water and Dawn and rinse with boiling water. Never had a failure since I started going this route.

[superdav95]

I can post a video clip but I doubt you’ll need it. I agree with what has been already said here.  Lately I’ve been using hide glue much like Pat does.  It’s the most compatible being it’s a protein based glue like pat said.  I have done it both ways too though with good results. I’ve not tried ea40 for hide backing so no experience with it for that.  Lately though I’ve been using hide glue instead of tb3 to apply the rawhide and then will coat it with tb3 when fully dry.  You just have to be sure to let it dry completely again after tb3 coating if that’s the route you go.  Also could just coat with oil based sealer like tru oil or tung oil even or the like.   I’ve even tried thin ca flex glue and lite coat the hide to seal and it worked good.   The trick is to get your hide good and saturated with Luke warm water and make sure to get any fatty fleshy bits cleaned off.  To degrease the back in prep for hide backing I use rubbing alcohol or acetone.  I’ve not had any fail yet and had good results like others here.   If you still would like a short video I can do that fairly soon as I’ve got a yew bow billet build I’ve been wanting to back with hide.  I’ll take some short clips in case anyways.  I will likley just use tb3 to put the hide on which is little simpler of process.  Do you have any hide glue?   Let me know your preference of glue.   

Dave

[Selfbowman]

How long do you let the hide glue sizing dry before the hide is glued on?

[superdav95]

How long do you let the hide glue sizing dry before the hide is glued on?

The way I’ve done it may be overkill but I prep as others have stated here but if using hide glue I use a supper thin even watery runny glue first a few size coats at least for rawhide.  I heat up the back of the bow over my stove top burner about 10” away on high heat and keep it moving.  It should be warm to the touch not blazing hot.  This will open up the pours of the wood fibers to allow it to better accept the this solution of hide glue.  The back would have been degreased or washed down with dawn soapy warm water like Pat was saying.  I think he says he uses boiling water too to wipe down.  I’ve never tried that but could see it working well too.  Anyway after you get the back of the bow surface quite warm but not too warm it is hot to the touch you would brush on your weak solution of hide glue.  I do this 3 times maybe more depending on how thin my glue is.  It will be a light syrup consistency.  Note I use much lighter thinner hide glue for when I size in prep for sinew.  Anyway a good 3 or 4 coats the surface of the back will look shiny when dry to the touch.  Because the back was warm the glue soaks in nice and will hold very well your backing.  It will not be terribly thick but that’s fine you will add a thicker coat with a brush just as you lay down your hide.  I also coat a thin layer on my hide after towel dapping it to get excess water off the hide.  By heating up the back a bit between each size coat it will speed up the drying too.  Don’t scorch it but get it warm.  After a few coats you will know if it’s soaked in good and be shiny.   As for the tb3. I do kinda similar.  I will water down the tb3 in a little bowl about 1/2 with water 1/2 glue.  This will act as the sizing coat as well.  Only major difference in this method is I do not apply heat when sizing with tb3.  I let it air dry to the touch barely and proceed with getting generous amount of tb3 on the damp but towel dried hides strips doing half the bow at a time.  I’ll also put another layer of tb3 straight out of the bottle not watered down on to the back of the bow then work the hide with my thumbs getting any excess glue squeeze out or air bubbles.  I will wrap my hide backings with an old work t shirt cut into long strips about 1-2” wide.  Once I get one side wrapped I move to the other limb and repeat the process using tb3.   The process is similar with hide glue but I add a little surface heat between the few size coats to get the shine appearance.  Then I’ll add about 30% hide glue mix which is pretty standard mix to both the back and the damp hide and lay it down and wrap the same.  For the hide glue it can be messy if not familiar with it.  It will gel up really fast too so a little heat can be your friend just prior to wrapping the limb.  Alternatively a little water on your fingers too will give you a little time to keep from gelling up too quickly.  Just move smoothly and quickly you should be fine.  Remember if you are in a cold shop doing this it will gel quicker then near a wood stove which would be my preference with hide glue.  A little heat can be your friend to keep the glue fluid.  I let the wrap be for about an hour or so then remove it and have a look.  I work the back when the wrap is still on to remove excess glue and air pockets but also do this when I take wraps off and still a little give.  The wraps help hold it in place but can leave a pattern if not careful about the manner in which you wrap.  I try not to allow my wraps to over lap too much and not to twist.  Do your best to have them lay as flat as your able.  You will be able to smooth out most of the patterns from the wrap with thumbs for the most part about an hour after doing the wraps.  I forgot to mention the hide strips can be prestreched and your bow can be back string with mild backset using string while putting hide strips on so when it dries it will assist with holding some backset.  Honestly if you have tb3 it works very well too and little less hassle if this is just a one off for you.  Hope this helps anyway let us know how it goes.   

[organic_archer]

I’ve had great luck with goat hide and TB3. I degrease the bow with 90% isopropyl alcohol, sand the flesh side of the hide with 120 grit, soak it in warm water with a few drops of Dawn detergent for 30-45 minutes, coat both the flesh side of the hide and the bow with a generous coat of TB3 and apply as usual.

[superdav95]

Here’s a good video that shows how I basically do it using tb3. 

https://youtu.be/rQYl2JORNaQ?si=uzyTAJGJ4dhX1zpZ

I’ve seen guys just use a generous amount of full strength tb3 and it works just fine too. 

[Selfbowman]

Time will tell. TB 3 on this one.

[mmattockx]

Had a selfbow with a pin knot trying to raise a splinter . I have two great looking goat hide strips to back it with. Recommended application please! Selfbowman does not do many bows with a backing.🤠

I concur with the others that hide glue is the way to go. EA-40 cures very hard and brittle. This is fine on laminations of wood because the glue line is so thin it can survive the limbs bending when drawn. With a backing I don't see how you could keep the glue line thin enough to prevent it cracking when the bow is drawn.


Mark