Did DC hit 200 fps @ 10GPP after all??

[bassman211]

My best 42 lb bow is sinew Osage sapling. With a 420 arrow it shoots 160fps. You guys are in an elite class for sure. It is amazing what can come  out of a piece of wood properly built. Hats off to all of you that press the envelope.

[StickMark]

This thread makes me feel better about mid's 40's draw weight with better designed bows and somewhat lighter arrows.

[bassman211]

Many archers have no use for a chrony, and I understand that, but for bow building, or even testing a glass bow it can be a valuable tool. Before getting into wood bow building I owned and shot, and chrony tested a vast array of popular glass bows. With my 26 inches of draw with a glass bow, and with 45 lb. glass bows I was never able to hit 170 fps. with a 450 gr. arrow. I haven't done it yet either with my wood bows, and it is clear to me that I won't, so that 200 fps mark is very impressive to me,as well as 170,180,190 fps bows.

[mmattockx]

And yes, lower drawweights clearly allow better results on wooden bows.

The more I think about it, the more I think all the bowyers I have heard say that heavier bows are faster might be making FG bows. This does make some sense to me because they have tip weight problems with FG lams and a higher draw weight may help overcome that somewhat.

Thanks to Badger for the update on DC's bow.

With my 26 inches of draw with a glass bow, and with 45 lb. glass bows I was never able to hit 170 fps. with a 450 gr. arrow.

A shorter draw is a real handicap when it comes to speed.


Mark

[bassman211]

Ya I know mark. When my son shot my same glass bows at 29 inches of draw their was a big difference in arrow speed, but that is OK. It is what it is. I never needed more than 150 fps bows for hunting.

[mmattockx]

Ya I know mark. When my son shot my same glass bows at 29 inches of draw their was a big difference in arrow speed, but that is OK. It is what it is. I never needed more than 150 fps bows for hunting.

I agree, there is nothing you can do about your draw length and you just have to work around it. That was for the people that don't realize draw length makes a major difference in arrow speed even at identical draw weight.


Mark

[bradsmith2010]

   this sinew osage bow,,55@ 26 180 fps with 500 grain arrow,,9.09 gpp
this just one example but if the bow is designed for the shorter draw, and reflexed,,, can be quite impressive
even at 25 was shooting pretty hard,,
the Sioux bows with 23 inch draw would shoot hunting weight arrows close to 180,, I dont have my notes,,,but the arrowo was bout 450 grains and weight of bow over 55,,,
   dont let the shorter draw discourage you,,

[BowEd]

The point I think DC wanted to make is the efficiency pound for pound in draw weight of bow and grain weight of arrow fps speed.
A trigger release is hard to duplicate with the fingers.
I've come close myself also and keep a few around to enjoy them also.

[mmattockx]

   this sinew osage bow,,55@ 26 180 fps with 500 grain arrow,,9.09 gpp

That's excellent performance for a short draw. If you took that same bow and re-tillered it to the same weight at 28" you would most likely find it is even faster.


Mark

[bassman211]

Brad not discouraged. At most I can handle 45lbs. I'm old, and feeble. I know a heavier bow with longer draw would help speed, but with good shot placement my son shot an 8 pt. buck this year with one of my horse bows that I made for my grandson at 11 yds that expired at 60 yds. I chronied that bow, and arrow at 135 fps. 200 fps at 42lbs. is plain awesome with a wood self bow. Major companies today are making super recurve bows with state of the art limb materials striving to get that kind of speed.

[bradsmith2010]

Mattock,, the bow was about 54 inches,, sometimes when trying to do that,, some of the reflex pulls out and its a wash,, shooting about the same,, but you could be right,, I think a little longer bow would hold the 28 draw a bit better,, since my draw is about 25 or 26,, I dont tiller them out that long unless its for someone else,,
   Bassman,, I think your string may be a bit heavy,,but 45 @ a shorter draw should work fine for hunting,, have you tried something in the 54 inch length, I have good luck with them,,for my 25 inch draw

[bassman211]

 Ya Brad...44, 46, 48, 50, 52 54, 56, and I have a couple 38 inch sinew backed Osage bows. The longer ones draw 25, but some of the shorter ones draw from 18 to 23 inches. A guy gave me a Osage stave that was really long, and he had one end butchered with a band saw. I got 56 inches out of it, and put it on a 4 inch reflex form. Gave it a good heat treat , and sinew backed it. It had some checking on the back. After that I got my fingers operated on. Trigger fingers. Four of them are cut. When they heal I will finish the the bow God willing. I might make this one 50lbs, for 26 inch draw, and get somebody to shoot it through the chrony. My strings are either 10 strand B55 or 8 strand D97 on my bows. I will test this one with an 8 strand D97 string.

[bradsmith2010]

sounds good,, hope you heal up soon,,

[superdav95]

Ya I know mark. When my son shot my same glass bows at 29 inches of draw their was a big difference in arrow speed, but that is OK. It is what it is. I never needed more than 150 fps bows for hunting.

So true. For hunting Shot placement is key and having heavier arrow for good penetration on large game.  Chrono Speed is just one indicator really.  More importantly can you hit what your aiming at with enough penetration.  There is a balance of good accuracy, decent speed and heavy hunting arrow with most of the weight up front.  I don’t hunt with anything lighter then 550grains.  I bump up to heavier when shooting heavier poundage bows 50lbs up.  There are fast lighter weight bows relatively speaking that have higher gpp speed then hunting weight bows but I wouldn’t personally use them for big game.  I’ve seen some 35-39pound bows that have higher gpp numbers but penetration becomes an issue on big game like deer, hog or moose.  Might get away with it on deer if good shot placement.  Much better results with slower heavier draw bow that has decent speed slinging a good heavy arrow with good foc weight distribution. 

[avcase]

      I have the DC bow in my possession. I need to ship it back to him. But yes his bow did settle in at 200 fps. He was very careful about the testing and used a shooting machine. The bow appeared to be a Mark St Louis design. DC made several and he was struggling to get a bow that didn't take set. That is where they loose all the speed. I believe this bow is 41 or 42# if I remember right. I have never had a bow settle in at 200 fps. I have had a few in the 190's but not self bows. I think 186 was my best ever self bow.

Steve,
When Jordan flight shot that bow a few years ago, she immediately commented that it shot like no other bow.  She still talks about how it shot!  Unfortunately, at the time we hurriedly threw together a couple of random beat up flight arrows for it.  We had no time for tuning or proper arrow matching which I believe would have made a huge difference.  I’m sure there is much untapped potential in that bow.

I believe this bow was a legitimate 200 fps at 28” draw with 10ggp arrow bow. I very carefully followed how the bow was tested, asked many follow up questions, and I couldn’t find any obvious issue to say otherwise. 95% of the time there is a testing issue with high speed claims.  Usually it is use of unverified weight scales for the bow and arrow, or using an inconsistent draw reference point (such as measuring 28” from the bow back), or drawing it to a different draw length than the one it was measured at, or relying on hand shot results instead of machine shot, but I couldn’t find any fault with DC’s bow.  I consider DC’s 200 fps bow legitimate and an incredible achievement!

Alan