Hide glue, bone glue or fish glue...

[akila]

Hi guys.....i want to ask you abute this 3 type of glue wisch is the best for making asiatic bows, and why? evreybody say that fish glue is the best...some people say that hide glue is the best....i have done some research on the internet and i found that actualy bone glues is the strongest  glue.....and i realy dont know whatt to beleve.....i hope  you can help me with this.....thks...im thinking that all 3 types are good becose its realy the same thing...its all abute colagen here right...?

[Canoe]

Howdy Mr. Akila,

Yes, it's all about the colagen.

In the book 'The Traditional Bowyer's Bible - Vol. 1,' there is a chapter titled, GLUE. (by Tim baker).

In that chapter, Mr Baker lists results from straight tests of a wide range of "glues."  From that list, on page 208;
Sinew Glue...36 lb.s
Bone Glue, sold as Hide Glue...36 lb.s
Hide Glue.....38 lb.s
Fish Bladder Glue...40 lb.s
Knox Gelatin (Jello)...42 lb.s

Mr. Baker goes on to explain that, "Above about 35 lb.s the (hard wood) samples themselves begin to fail."  I interpreted this statement as him suggesting that at about 35 lb.s the glue becomes as strong as or stronger than the wood that it is glued to.

I hope this was helpful informantion, and I look forward to seeing your glued-up composit bow.

best of Luck,
Canoe
   

[leapingbare]

donno if this helps but i'v seen hide glue chip glass 

[Justin Snyder]

If you are buying hide glue you need to ask what strength it is.  There is much variation depending on its intended use and preperation.  Yes preperation means a lot to the strength and open time of hide glue. All of the animal glues are stronger than the wood. Fish glue is more flexable, but is also more sensitive to moisture.  Just use what you have.  Justin

[akila]

Hi...thks a lot....for your help....i wanna ask you something els....i wass looking for this Knox gelatin..and it seams that here in Romania wi dont have this brand...instead wi have Dr.Oetker...do you know iff its the same thing?....it dosent wright on the package from whatt it is made......

[Canoe]

Howdy Akila,

I looked up Dr. Oetker Gelatin on the internet (Goggle), it appears that it is the same as Knox gelatin from the U.S.

I also found a recipe for glue...
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/TipsTricks/KitchenGlue/kitchenglue.html

You need three parts water to one part gelatin (3:1).  Also, while cooking the mix, you must not allow the temperature to go above 180F.
And it is good to work quickly - get the mixture to above 150F, and apply the glue right away.  Don't let it sit for any length of time.

In gluing, there are other factors to think about;
Make sure you have a rough, clean surfice to apply the glue.  You can use a solvent to remove any natural wood oils that might be on the glue surface.
Surface Area is also important.  In designing you bow, the larger the glue surface area is the more the stresses are spread out over the glue area.

I hope this was helpful, and I look forward to seeing your bow.

All the best,
Canoe

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[superdav95]

Sturgeon bladder glue is very strong in my testing.  Like was already stated any callogen glue over 35 in strength would be fine but there are other factors you may want to consider before making your decision on which glue to go with.  Gel time, moisture resistance, cost, prep time and availability.  I’ve made a number of horn composite bows and I personally found that the best glue for these builds was sturgeon bladder glue.  I really liked slightly longer gel time with sturgeon glue over other glues like hide or Knox type glues.  This came in handy when doing the horn glue up.  I’ve had to really rush to get things together before gelling up using hide glue for a horn glue up.  Sinew is not so big an issue for me personally as it’s a less critical part of the build as far as gel time.  Croaker or sturgeon bladder glue can be purchased online but it’s expensive.  You could make your own which is what I did last year and I was very happy with the glue I got out of it.  The unique quality of sturgeon bladder glue is it resistance to moisture which is another factor that is important for composite bows. FWIW best of luck with your build