Overweight tiller best approach?

[willie]

for instance. if you are at 24" with 50 # before you do a wood removal,
then after the scraping,  you measure 50 # at 25".

then do you let it rest for a minute or two then see what weight you get at 25" on a second pull?

how much weight loss at 25" would tell you to do something different? and what would you do different?

[simk]

i find Badgers method intersting as a theoretical mind game and I see the thought behind. but: isn't set inevitable to a certain degree? further: isn't the inevitable amount of set different from one piece of wood to the next one? So how can these uncertainties be implemented into the so called "no set method"? how do I distinguish between the inevitable set and set induced by my bad tillering?
cheers

[willie]

i think Badger method detects a weight loss which precedes set, and he monitored enough bows to get a good idea where he will end up set-wise by seeing how the bow responds at 23/24"?

lowering the weight goal for the finished bow seems to be the most likely action if a bow shows the preliminary symptoms too early.

or getting the outers working more?

[simk]

Thanks Willie.
I'd say  that  "weight loss which precedes set" is already set. Maybe "visible set" would be more precise.
What you say basically makes sense. But when and how much is "too early". Looks like also with this method you rely a lot on individual experience to interpret the situation...?
Cheers

Edit: How much loss do you accept as inevitable practically and when do you react by lowering weight goal or adapting your tiller?    If you don't see where the set - according to the measurements - happend how do you know you need to scrape the outers? In my bowmaking set mostly gets visible first mid to outers...

[George Tsoukalas]

willie, to answer the question you addressed to me..I look for 10" of string travel...not nock travel.

Mirroring the finished bow ...the nocks only move 2 or 3".

Jawge

[TimBo]

I am going to have to go out to the garage and play with long strings and scales for a while for this to make sense.  The words are starting to spin around in my head...

[willie]

Edit: How much loss do you accept as inevitable practically and when do you react by lowering weight goal or adapting your tiller? 

hopefully Badger can quantify what he measures and where. I have used this method with success, but have not developed enough experience to know how much to back off.

how do you know you need to scrape the outers?

I presume leaving the outers a bit stiff initially could be one way utilize this method.
Having done so, and upon seeing weight loss, one might assume the inner limbs are getting to thin and the bend shape needs to move "outward"?

[Badger]

I should probably start another thread to discuss that. It's not a real short answer. I like to use as little limb working as possible. Now even though I like to use as little as possible working 90% of the time I still have to use almost the whole limb. My primary go to area is right off the fades I'd like to leave about 3 inches that's pretty stiff I can go back into that 3 in and get quite a few inches of draw if necessary

[bradsmith2010]

sometimes I am making a bow for someone,, thats wants a specific draw,, and I have to live with some set,, its a bit different if making for myself,, I can stop when the draw is any length,, or reduce the target weight,,
but for most hunting purposes,, a bow with a little set is still very deadly,, so have to factor that in to what is always a give and take with performance and practicality..for that bows intended use,,its complicated,,,

[Badger]

sometimes I am making a bow for someone,, thats wants a specific draw,, and I have to live with some set,, its a bit different if making for myself,, I can stop when the draw is any length,, or reduce the target weight,,
but for most hunting purposes,, a bow with a little set is still very deadly,, so have to factor that in to what is always a give and take with performance and practicality..for that bows intended use,,its complicated,,,

  I don't think I have made a bow in life without some set. I have come pretty close a lot of times though. Thats where the fun comes in for me is fighting set.

[bradsmith2010]

I just try my best, what else can I do,, great info by the way

[simk]

Thanks Guys!
Interesting method and topic for sure! I'tempted to try,...at least partially to see the hidden loss when tillering....just curious to observe that. But basically I'm very intuitive with my bowmaking and my method switches greatly from bow to bow. Some bows are almost ready tillered to 28" when roughed out, some need more careful progress...
Cheers