New bow started(again, 1/4/2022){ and again 8/10/22}

[superdav95]

Way cool pat. I like that name.  I love molle style bows. I think they are just a great bow design and have very nice lines and curves that catch the eye.  They function very well too.

[bjrogg]

You got her under control Pat.

I appreciate the sinew information contained in this thread. It’s something I have been wanting to do for awhile, but just never got around to.

If I get some time I have one I’d like to sinew back. I can already tell I did a few things that probably won’t help its performance, but I think it’s still a decent candidate for sinew.

I might be asking more questions about sinew and starting a thread on the bow I’m talking about in the near future.

Bjrogg

[BowEd]

Linked name references to materials for sentimental reasons.I get it.It all had to start somewhere right?
The potential of this design can only be realized by pushing the envelope with it.
There's a stock house full of sinew application threads on here.From PatM,Bownarra,Marc,others or me if someone is really serious about it.
To get the full effect of it all,doing it till you get it right is the only way.Watching it being done is'nt enough.

[bradsmith2010]

Pat how did you process the sinew,, I dont think I saw,, how long is moose sinew,,? will you use hide glue or knox

[Pat B]

Brad, when I got the sinew it was in it's hard, dried stage. I used the stump I use for punch out stitching holes in leather and some of my leather working tools to pound the tendons and pliers and other tools to separate it into fibers...

this is my cobblers hammer from when I was a sandal maker back in the 70's and pliers and awls.




Something else I haven't done with other sinew backed bows will be to comb out the sinew bundles before applying the sinew. I'll post pics of the rest of the process as I move along.
 
 Ed, I agree there is a lot of info here on this forum from over the years about sinew backing bows from you and the others you mentioned. I also realize there are other Holmy/Molle style bows that have recently been posted here with sinew backing. I enjoy posting my methods to help others that aren't experts at any of these processes realize that if I can do it so can they. The extent that anyone gets involved in these processes it up to them. For me, I like the fact that I can do all these things, even though not expertly, so it might help someone else be able to at least try. I've never been an expert at any of these things related to "primitive" archery but for me it's always been keep it as simple as possible but still be effective. Having people here on PA that are "experts" is such a great gift for every member and is icing on the cake for lack of a better analogy.

[bradsmith2010]

that is some beautiful long sinew,, gonna work great,, I have never combed any of mine,, so will be interesting to see how that goes
whenever I tried to comb mine,, it seemed like alot was wasted so I stopped,, or the pieces got to small,, so hope this will inspire me to try again, it does look so much better when the threads are more fine,, and not to open a can of worms,, but I think there is little difference in the performance,,

[superdav95]

For me I like to get my sinew fibers combed out to fine hair like strands.  I use a stiff wire brush or a dog brush steel.  I separate the similar length fibers into bundles and weight them and place them into bags to keep them organized in length.  I use them all.  I’ll use the shorter ones for the middle section handle area to cap the ends of the limb bundles laid prior.  I like to wash with dawn dish soap well to get all oils out then place in tubs of water to keep wet.  I then take measured weighted bundles and comb out well in parallel strands on a clean surface.  I then dunk the bundle a few times each time squeezing out excess glue just prior to laying down on the bow.  Prior to laying down though it’s important to size coat the core very well with very thin glue.  This is a critical step in my opinion.  The bow I’m doin now has 10 coats of very thin bladder/hide glue. About 5% glue.  Basically water thin glue light amber coloured glue.  I groove my core with a fine toothed hacksaw blade or a 20tpi blade with vertical grooves.  I then do the sizing coats.  The core is heated till warm using radiant heat prior to the first couple size coats.  I let each coat dry after painting each coat on with a brush.  I keep going with subsequent coats until the surface is dried shiny appearance and saturated with thin glue.  Once the sizing is done and dry usually a day or so I prepare my weighted bundle layout.  I measure by weight each bundle to keep the limbs equal as I can. I use 30% glue which is a mix hide and sturgeon bladder glue for laying down my bundles.  I use warm water to smooth out when on the bow.  I paint a final coat of 30% glue to let it dry.   Hope this helps someone out there out.   

[BowEd]

That'll work Dave and the best way to stay out of trouble in all phases of your description.
I might add using PatM's method of stripping leg sinew while wet reduces waste considerably.If it is used and applied onto the bow at that time.To let it dry to a hard cordy stage leads to a not very smooth finished work.
Dry stripped leg sinew will lead to a nice fluffy state that absorbs hide glue readily and softens nicely for a smooth sinew job.
Wrapping a couple of times after gelling with cotton strips and reheated and massaged nicely can help for a smoother job and less waste too.Applying the sinew in a crowned fashion for less mass and to make the sinew work more too.
A person learns how much pressure to use while squeezing excess glue from the sinew to have enough but not too much.
Keeping track of the weights of the hide glue and sinew apart from each other will give a person some reference while weighing the bow before sinewing first.I usually apply around 1/3 weight hide glue and 2/3rds sinew weight to a bow.
Final weighing will give you a good insight into whether your percentages were correct.
These things might sound like nonsense but thay are'nt.These are the fine tunings learned and needed for very successful sinew job work.

Pat in the past I've read claim after claim from you how putting sinew on a 64" bow is self negating for performance.Without actual proof it could be.Trying to dishearten others.When I've seen the contrary with my own eyes many times.
I say don't stifle the imagniation.
Now you think it's this moderate design that'll be the difference or that it makes more sense..Your in for another surprise.
I've been reluctant to spoon feed those on here that have no self intiative either.If anyone wants some help state all of the facts with pictures of their actions on the wood prior to the problem otherwise it's a mere guessing game.
A little self initiative can go a long way no matter how many bows a person has made.

[bradsmith2010]

when is the sinew going on,, excited to see how thats gonna go with that amazing sinew you have,,,

[Pappy]

Looking good so far Pat, watching for more .
 Pappy

[Pat B]

Brad, as soon as I finish up the project I'm doing for the raffle table at the Tenn. Classic I'll be moving on to sinewing this bow. Paradigm shift. 

[bradsmith2010]

Pat,, eta on sinew?

[Pat B]

Brad, no definite ETA but I'd say within a month.

[Pat B]

OK, Brad, here we go...

I've decided to switch over from working on the diorama of the Kodiak Bear Hunt to working on Elg Bue, my Hjarno attempt, a 7000 year old bow found in a fjord in Denmark. As all of you might remember(it's been so long) I've shaped and partially tillered this bow and was waiting for winter to add the sinew.
 I started by cleaning my work bench in our sunroom(for me, this in clean).

and gathered the sinew, glue, crock pot and other supplies for the process.
I set up my form with 2x4 blocks to support the tips...

I usually draw the handle down to the form so the stave is in more reflex for adding the sinewing. The last few times I've done this I would tie the handle down to the form with sinew and just add the sinew over this.  This time I drilled a hole in the form at the center line, drilled a shallow hole in the back of the handle and used a screw and washers to draw the handle down to the form which gives me a more positive attachment than using the sinew to tie it down...


Once I get my head screwed on right I'll start the sinewing process. I'll keep you posted...

[Selfbowman]

Ok Pat I’ll be waiting. How long does the sinew process take??