Elm

[superdav95]

Awesome info Ed.  Yes it can and I’ve done it successfully on elm.  Also have done hickory of various types, hhb, hard maple and white oak.  Varied results with heat treating over coals clamped to forms.  Hickory (shagbark) and iron wood were my favourite.  Elm was like the hhb/ ironwood in many ways.  Little heavier then hickory at least the shagbark.  Little tougher to get a bow drawknifed out with elm and had to resort to lots of rasp work.  I had edge run out on a few places on that bow and still shot fine and very snappy.  I heat treated all the same length of time over the coals about 2-3 hours between 250-300 degrees.  Just hot enough that I could stand to hold my hand over the coals at the same height of the bow form about 2 seconds.  This allows the deep slow cook.  It changes the properties of the wood.  I would integrate flipped tips or recurve into the forms to bake them in over the coals.  Just make sure you are below 10%mc before cook.  I’ve had splits happen otherwise.  I usually clamp my greenish semi floor tillered bow to the form and let it dry in the sun for a few days or a week depending on mc.  Some longer depending on humidity.  Once heat treated they hold the reflex and flipped tips profile of the form.  I then tiller as normal. 

As for my elm logs that I got I too feel very lucky to find them around here.  The bow I made last year was less then perfect to say the least and still turned out a shooter.  Impressive wood elm is.  These logs should be much better.  Will let them dry a year like you say just be make sure.  I’ll snap some pics and post here tomorrow.  Yes mine have some heartwood too. 

You prefer shallack over poly brush on for sealer?  I may switch.  Have you used poly or a varethane product before?     

[TimmyDeNorCal]

Your elm haul looks really good.

I tried some red elm last year. They were to this day the straightest staves I have ever come across. It almost felt like cheating. They required no heat-corrections whatsoever. But both staves were absolutely garbage. I kept the bow profile wide enough for a low SG wood, didn’t over-tax the design...and they still came out with excessive set. Well, to be as accurate as I can, the bow that I used heartwood only on had excessive cast-robbing set. The mild R-D bow that had a ring or two of sapwood as its back was a smooth-shooting bow with solid cast...but then it splintered on the back and was ruined soon enough. Both staves reminded me of some balsa-like hobby wood dowels from a hobby store.

Your logs look waaaaay better, though. I foresee some shooters coming out of ‘em.

[bjrogg]

Nice find Ed. Look forward to seeing some of your extreme profile bows being made from them in the future.

Bjrogg

[BowEd]

You've done quite an extensive adventure baking these woods.Info on that is going to help many a bowyer.Once set up for it I can see it's advantages.
The red elm here is not very good here either.Heat treating did not help it much in the end.
I still just use the old heat gun.A slow process but worth it.I believe it's the excessive air flow from the gun that wants to char the back.Not like your baking method.On the handy tips section I showed an aluminum tape I use on the back to stop that completely.
Hickory is the hardest of my whitewoods here..70 or above.When I see a light pink hue in the sawdust working it I know I've got a good piece.The ironwood took the longest to turn color heat treating.I run the temperatures up slowly over 400 F. for a good 4 to 5 minutes or so and move along barely an inch at a time to get a good even baking.
I prefer shellack.It's getting more and more expensive though.It dries relatively fast.Just about anything will stick to it too.
As far as differences in this harder elm.I did an elm 10 years ago from a stave bought at Twin oaks.Fella was from South Carolina.I assume it came from his state.That stuff was just as hard as my hickory.It had very light colored heartwood.
This Arkansas elm is not as hard but still way better than red elm.Chasing a ring on it is'nt that hard either.
When doing these more extreme designs it takes the cleanest wood a person has.

[superdav95]

Ed.  It’s a great option for white wood for sure.  It’s a game changer I think.   I’ve used a heat gun set up similar to marks set up he uses.  He has a vid online as a tutorial.  In the winter months I’ve used this method and it works but it’s time consuming.  I personally like the pit method I learned from Keith Shannon.  It’s more complete of a bake I think.  The nice thing too is that m ya pit is set up that I can do 4 bows on forms at once.  Anyway don’t want to hijack this thread I can send you some pics of my set up and pit. 

Here’s a couple pics of my elm harvest.  I think it’s slippery elm if not mistaken.  The grain is wavy on the outer layer under bark.  Nice a straight though.  The bigger one is about 8+” diameter and smaller one is about 6” at one end.  You can see the kerf cuts I made on each piece. 

Cheers. 

Cheers. 

[superdav95]

Here’s my pit set up. 

[TimBo]

On the third photo from the next-to-last post, that is some really snaky/wavy grain.  I know elm grain is interlocking, but it is hard to get my head around cutting through that much runout after years of following grain...but you haven't had any issues with elm when working with a stave like that?  Would you do the same thing with spiral twist, or is that a different scenario?

[superdav95]

Timbo.  I haven’t yet.  Hadn’t  a problem with a little grain run off on elm as long as not severe.  Twist would be different I suspect.  I had a badly twisted hhb stave and it did not survive tiller.  I’m sure there is limits to what elm can withstand as far as grain run out.  I may have gotten lucky with mine I don’t know.  I would not have gotten away with this on hickory I suspect either. 

[BowEd]

I'll have to invest into setting up a pit like that sometime.It looks productively very efficient.I totally agree heating those white woods is a game changer.
No worries about hijacking here.Subject is totally related.Would like to see others' elm staves from other areas identifying there logs.
I tend to make 1 bow at a time.Not always the same length or design.I do have shelves full of forms though.

Nice looking clean logs there.Being 8" diameter you should get a fairly flat back on those.Your grain on the 1 log does looks mildly wavy.I did'nt see that much wavyness on my logs grain though without a knot.Personally I would follow that wavy line.Layout for a heck of a snaky character bow there.
I kerfed mine about 1.75" deep.
Some of my staves have a little sprig of a twig about 1/16" in diameter[no wave from that].Not really even a knot.Where there was a knot on the edge of the stave after cutting through it there is a mild wave but since the staves are so wide it should'nt affect the layout of the bow any.There were'nt many knots on my staves overall.A couple of the sapling staves do and 1 of the shorter staves does.
Length on most of the staves from 69" to 64" on most with 4 staves at 58" long.Total of 20 staves.

There is a fair amount more heartwood in your log.In the states here they catagorize slippery elm as a soft elm.[red,chinese,and american]They catagorize the hard elm as rock,winged,cedar,and even september elm.
These elm differences in hardness are a lot like maples here.We've got hard and soft maple trees too.
After removing the bark on my staves/letting them dry/shellacking them the color on the back of the stave turns a medium brown.You can see the difference from wiping the sap off before applying shellack and not wiping the sap off as to the dried color.
I think I'll end up removing 1 ring from most of these staves.They've got good consistent rings on them.The drying twist is what I hope to avoid with these staves.
It's still a gamble though retrieving staves from logs.Part of the adventure.

[Jakesnyder]

Do you worry about taking the belly to one ring before stringing it backwards?

[BowEd]

I assume you mean during sinewing?No I don't.That's not a concern.The bend is not that abrupt.Even on parallel width limbs.
Some designs or width and taper dimensions do end up with 1 ring on the belly though.Depending on how wide the limbs start out and degree of width taper from the fades.

[superdav95]

That’s a great haul Ed!   Here a couple pics of the bark on my elm.  I may be wrong but looks like white elm maybe.  What you guys think.  It’s is very heavy and was about as hard to cut as my hhb. 

[Buckskinner]

That is some nice looking elm!  All we have around here to my knowledge is what we call piss elm (which I believe is Chinese elm) and a few remaining Dutch elm that got around the disease.  I look hard for elm trees but for morels not staves.   Good thing we have lots of hickory though.

[BowEd]

I believe or trust in your evaluation of your elm there with you having worked the other woods locally also.That's definitely an elm leaf.
That ought to be some top notch stuff.You've got a treasure house around you up there I'd say.I do have osage,black locust,and hickory here.Feel forunate for that.I feel my larder is full for a while now.
Ai'nt it a breeze the way the bark comes off?Sure saves a lot of time and labor.I did drawknife a couple of the sapling staves after splitting them resawing.I have plans for some of that innerbark flemish twisted into a cord for a wrap handle.

I see many elm here and many that are dead.I keep an eye out too for mushrooms around and on those dead ones.I believe those are mostly red,with the occasional american and chinese.Some grow huge here before succumbing to the disease.I cut em up and throw them into the stove.

Being retired now I've got other priorities to fullfill now.The garden/winterwood/brain tanning to name a few.I like to keep the farming land free of volunteer trees and weeds.Do a little fishing too.As Pappy would say....Life is good.

[Buckskinner]

I will say one thing about the elm around here whatever it is, it is a mother to split!  I took a wedge to the forehead once splitting elm, bounced right back at me.  I decided right there, done burning this stuff, plenty of oak and such around here.