6 piece Asiatic style bamboo bow

[BowEd]

Interesting....Now that hog gut covering does'nt go over the belly too as it is a tube from an intestine does it?
Maybe just the lining of the hog gut?

[superdav95]

Interesting....Now that hog gut covering does'nt go over the belly too as it is a tube from an intestine does it?
Maybe just the lining of the hog gut?

Not the belly.  Just layers of hog intestine actually that gets cleaned, dried and spread out like sheet of paper in layers.  I picture it like they open it up along one side and spread it out so it’s no longer a tube.    The covering I decided to go with as a protective layer on this bow was 4 layers.  It’s quite thin as you can imagine and weights hardly anything at all.  I didn’t find it added any sinew effect of any poundage to a bow but it’s a neat protective backing for a bow or in this case sinew covering.  I follow with a couple layers of titebond 3 applied with my finder to work it in after a few days drying.  This will help water proof it a bit too.  I suspect I’ll do more of these backings as it’s a neat effect especially with the little textured look it has.  It take stain very well too which is nice. Gives it a depth and translucency to the surface.  Thanks for looking.  Cheers.

Cool builds Dave . I enjoyed the the thread on the bows . Good speed also!

Thanks selfbowman!   Gonna get the sinewed version finished up here in the next couple weeks and compare them all head to head. Sort of.  They are all similar draw weights but ended up varied.  I just finished I putting a hog gut covering on my sinewed version of this bow and letting it dry a week or so.  Should be interesting to see how it does.   

Thanks for looking. 

[superdav95]

Got this little sinewed version braced today.   It did not tiller well for me.  I think I went wrong on trying to tiller this bow the same way I would with a all wood bow. I tried to get it looking good early on in its pulls and got too hung up on perfection and before I knew it I had a 25-30lb bow.  It had a very pronounced c shape when I started bending it and warming it up getting things moving.  I believe I removed too much belly wood too early on in the process trying to get things perfect.  Oh well lesson learned.  It’s still a sweet little 25-30lb bow albeit sinewed and highly reflexed.  It’s like a race car with a chevett engine.  It looks fast but it ain’t.  I guess it’s fast for a 25lb bow.  It shoots nice for a kids bow I quess.    My goal was 50lbs with this bow.  Just a little off!    Anyways here a couple pics.  I’ll do less removal for the next one. 

Cheers and thanks for looking.   

[BowEd]

Sorry to hear this Dave.I feel your disapppointment,but it did not break and that's good too knowing your glueing application process was good.The bow making bug bite is highly ingrained and I'm sure the wheels of ideas will turn into more attempts.
What process is it that you do to get a bow to brace?

[superdav95]

Thanks Ed.  It’s a different animal for me in getting to brace which is likley where the problems start for me.   There is so much reflex that my tiller tree set up won’t work and I do not have a leg board made yet.  So my way of getting to brace was to slowly start bending both limbs together towards me with the handle against my knee.  I figured this would work as I could see the bend was equal for both sides.  I think I got too hung up on the getting both limbs to look the same and removed too much belly wood.  My hope was to remove none but the bend was so uneven that I didn’t feel like it was gonna get to brace.  For my next one I’m definitely gonna use a peg board.  I feel like it should still be possible to get a bow of this type braced by the method I used but the learning curve involves messing up a few first.  I’m not sure on that. 

[PatM]

That's too bad.  Tillering by material removal is just not the best option for a bamboo belly.  How far off was it in tiller?  Most would brace by placing their knees on the midlimbs rather than the handle.

[superdav95]

That's too bad.  Tillering by material removal is just not the best option for a bamboo belly.  How far off was it in tiller?  Most would brace by placing their knees on the midlimbs rather than the handle.

Pat.  It was off enough that I didn’t feel like I could get it braced otherwise.  I did try to bend it a bit at mid limbs too but in hindsight maybe I should have used some light radiant heat to loosen up slightly perhaps instead of removal of belly wood.  That may have been the better option I’m not sure.  What prevented me trying that was that there is no horn on this bow.  Just bamboo and sinew.  I wasn’t confident that this would work out too well so I abandoned the thought at the time and went with removal.  The bow acted as though I had uneven sinew laid on the limbs the way it was bending for me.  It seemed the inner of the one limb was much stronger on the one side which caused me to scrape to get the other side as even as I could.  Removal of inner limb is risky to say the least especially with these little bows.  Clearly I went too far.   Question for anyone out there… any thoughts on tillering and finishing the bending of a bamboo bow of this type first to just beyond brace then applying sinew???  This would certainly eliminate some of the issues I had with this bow.  I could be wrong on that but my thinking is that by getting the outlets close at brace with even bend I could focus on very even layering of sinew on inner and mid limbs where I want the strength to be.  I’ll try another one here soon and learn from this one regardless. 

Thanks for looking and joining me on this journey. 

Dave

[BowEd]

In the past making my version of horn bows [1 piece bow] bringing the wood bow [core]  to brace and alignment without stressing wood before horn application and sinewing I know helped.The pre taper of this core then would transfer the bend yet properly and with putting a taper on the horn too before applying it and an even layer of sinew applied.I'm sure that pretiller method would work with your bamboo/sinew version also.

After successfully making a bow then I took note of thickness's of limbs/thickness's of components for future bows to come within my draw weight that I wanted on future bows.Cutting down the time of tillering to a minimum.Especially after I made a peg board to get it to brace.

I think we've discussed this before in the past and it leads to more fuel in the fire to attempt more future bows and it's a good note.

I might note here my version of horn bows do not stress the horn or sinew to it's abilities that it could do.Too long of working limbs compared to actual Turkish style horn bows made.Still my version with excessive reflex shot arrows exceedingly well.
Your version of bamboo/sinew bows I think it would be appropriate to make them in this way with excellent results.

To note here getting Adam Karpowizs' book on turkish horn bows gave more insight.You may have that book too I'm not sure.

On threads in the past of mine making my version of horn bows I've shown the tillering process on the peg board.
For overall excellent speed on these bows cutting down the working length of these bows whether they be horn bows or self bows gives positive results.
You are correct in saying these sinewed horn bows are a completely different animal [like it's alive] than self bows.I'm still always amazed by what these composites will do on a bow.

[superdav95]

You know Ed I think it’s very interesting to me how the process works and to me it’s part of the challenge.  I do appreciate your comments and others here as well.  A wealth of knowledge.  I’m getting there slowly but surely.  I think a peg board is in order and getting pre tiller fine tuned as you say before sinew might be the ticket.  These little bows are only 56-58” ntn. Are are quite good shooters given the size.  They give decent draw length as well for good power stroke.  For being all wood the mass was also very low.  Mainly under a pound for finished bow.  The horn bellied version I made of these little bows had extra mass but still shot well. Not as fast I think partly due to the mass but still a fine shooter.  The thing I like about these bows and your horn/ sinew bows is that they are still practical. I feel like some of the composite horn sinew bows out there although fast flight bows are not practical at all.  They need to be warmed up or worked in and put in a jig or peg board or take two people just to get it strung up.  Nothing against anyone who makes these bows as they are amazing achievements but the bows I like to make are practical compromises of these bows I guess.  I want to be able to string up my bow with ease and be ready to go and shoot.  Similar to the ease of a long bow but with some of the benefits of the composites.  It’s a balance and a compromise in my view.  I see this in your bows as well.  You could take things closer to the edge of better performance but you don't because you know that if you do you would lose something in practical end and so it seems deliberate and intentional.  Going to the edge of performance may be necessary even to know where that line is just so that we can back off a bit to maintain the other properties we want I guess.  Either way it’s an awesome journey to say the least and I’m enjoying it.  Thanks again Ed. 

[BowEd]

Well said Dave.I can see these type bows have imprinted onto you in the same way as me.When I showed my bows in the past I stated those exact intentions.A practical well performing/long time durable version of a hunting bow.
The dynamics of natural materials I might add out perform FG versions which was my intentions to show also.They may take longer to make but well worth the effort.
It's one of the true definitions of enjoying the journey in making bows.

[superdav95]

So true!   I have several fg bows and speed tested some of them to shoot against my bows and the all wood bows are as fast or faster as far as chrono is concerned.  My buddies come over and can’t believe it.  Using the gpp arrow measurements for speed/ weight comparisons I’ve found the same thing as well as you have.  The gpp arrow speed is often better on my bows then my fg bows.  The drawback with the fg bows is the added mass.  Fg makes for a very durable bow for sure but similar durability can be achieved with patience and planning using all wood and natural materials too.  Like you said it takes little longer.  You nailed it on the head you said you want well performing long time durability for hunting purposes.  That’s what I’m after too. 

[BowEd]

I'm kinda an odd ball with this archery stuff.Did'nt start shooting or making till 2009.Never shot any other kind of bow before that.
The appeal of going down into the bottom or along the ridge and getting material for a bow and arrow stuck with me.
I do need to get a supply of good bamboo one of these days too.

[superdav95]

Ya for sure.  Bamboo is neat stuff.  It heat treats very well too which surprised me.  Let me know if you want a couple limb pieces to monkey around with.  I have a supplier in Toronto I get mosso boo from it comes in long 5” diameter poles.  The trick is to get the moisture out of it without cracking it all to heck.  I finally figured it out and got a system that works.  Let me know if you want couple pieces to try. 

Cheers

Dave

[superdav95]

I decided to put Buffalo horn on the belly of this bow to stiffen her up.  I figured why not try it.  Gonna wait a week for the glue to dry up on these limbs.  Here’s a couple pics.  More to come next week. 

Cheers

[BowEd]

That'll beef up the poundage that's for sure.Help you keep reflex too.
I did some self research some time ago on getting horn laminations from gemsbok horn in the build-a-long thread.
All replies are informative but to the meat of the research comment #28 shows the poundage I got from different thickness's of horn.
Comments in the #30's to lower #40's tell a bit more too.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,42181.0.html