Author Topic: Ergonomics  (Read 2610 times)

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Offline Tim P

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Ergonomics
« on: November 18, 2021, 09:00:47 am »
So building my first bow I found that:

- Clamping the stave in a workbench with some sandbags on the feet is workable with the drawknive
- Clamping it in the workbench and working with the spokeshave is also workable, but not really handy
- Leaning it against a wall and my leg and working with the spokeshave is workable, but also not really handy
- No idea whats a comfortable way to scrape the damn thing.

So, I'm pondering halting the work, building a shaving horse and then continuing.

How do you guys work on your bows? Whats the best position and the best tool for you? I get a lot of back pain scraping (and after a whole day os scraping, I barely see any result).

As for the scraper. It's a cabinet scraper and I burnished it with an old drill bit. But even though I press quite hard on the bit, the scraper removes only a tiny bit of dust/curls from the wood.
I'm also pondering going back to the spokeshave with a very fine setting for a while.

Offline RyanY

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2021, 09:07:42 am »
This is my setup. Been working well for a few years. Needs a better vice though.

https://youtu.be/NesC9vxE580
https://youtu.be/3hG4ohjQUm0

Offline Deerhunter21

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2021, 12:43:58 pm »
I second RyanY's setup. it serves its purpose very well and is portable
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.

Offline Eric Garza

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2021, 02:30:17 pm »
That is a pretty nice little bench Ryan. Why do you keep the videos unlisted? Seems like others would be interested in seeing your design.

Offline Allyn T

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2021, 03:17:28 pm »
Mine is similar to Ryan's but is much taller so I can stand the whole time. I got the design from mo-coon on here. I just held my arms out like I was draw knifing measured that distance to the floor and then subtracted the height of my vise to figure out how tall to make my table. I'm 6'4" so I wanted something designed for my to keep me from hunching over all the time.
In the woods I find my peace

Offline Hamish

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2021, 05:53:03 pm »

For roughing out a stave with a draw knife, or scraping down to one ring, there is nothing better than shaving horse.

For fine tillering with a rasp, scraper etc a machinist's vise, (a pattern maker's vise is even better), clamped or bolted to bench is ideal. A 4" set of soft jaws will allow you to clamp a bow with fades safely.

You can work the bow strung or unstrung, in the vise. Its best to build some sort of adjustable support that the limb can rest upon towards the tips so the limb resists tipping towards the bench from your body weight at the end of the stroke of the tool.

Nearly every other method will cause frustration and inefficiency.

Your scraper should cut long shavings, like a plane. If its producing dust and fluff, it was not sharped properly, or has gone blunt. You can still use it , but it will just cause frustration.

I sharpen my scrapers by using a diamond stone. I get a block of wood with square sides to move the scraper against as it rests on the stone, thus keeping the scraper at the correct angle. You can use a texta pen, to coat the edges. By the time you have stoned off the texta markings the edge will be square.

Then I stone the faces flat against the stone. Put the scraper in a vise then turn a hook at a slight angle 5-10degrees off square.
It should now cut long, precise shavings.

bownarra

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2021, 04:16:21 am »
A good solid bench - fixed to the floor and the wall. So it cannot move. Then simply fix an good 4" engineers vice to it. If you have the money absolutely nothing can touch a pattern makers vice.....and I mean nothing! :) Make sure the height is correct.
I wouldn't bother with a shave horse - ok for roughing out but I want to be able to move around the bow easily. A shave horse locks you into one position.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2021, 09:09:48 am »
I have shown this many times before, it is my perfect setup for working on bows, a padded vise, a support post and a 300# workbench that isn't going to move. I have had several shave horses, they were OK but my vise setup works much better.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2021, 10:32:02 am »
For the initial reduction of a stave, after the bandsaw, I use a vice mounted to my workbench which is anchored to the block wall. Once I get to floor tiller I move to my bowyers bench(Stave Master) and there on I mainly use a scraper. Sometimes I have to go back to the bench for a little rasping but generally it's the scraper from here on out.
 Over the years, when I worked harder using the drawknife I broke 3 different little red vices and pulled my workbench free from the wall. Since then I got a heavier vice and don't try to move the earth with a drawknife.
 I built a bowyers shaving horse from directions in PA Magazine. I used it for years and really likes it. At the Classic one year I tried one of Keenan's Stave Master and having the boat seat on it made it less tiring and supported my not so good back. I've never regretted purchasing the Stave Master.
 Using the right tool for the right situation is important; the solid vice for early reduction and a bowyers bench for the finer work.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Tim P

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2021, 11:09:23 am »
I never thought about mounting a vice on a bench. That seems like a good option (and not taking too much place). Thx for the tips. really helpful!

And it seems like I need to practice sharpening the scraper :-p

Offline Al Thornton

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2021, 12:24:23 pm »
The easiest way to sharpen a scarper is with a 1 inch belt sander. Turn on the sander. Push the scraper across the belt. You want to see sparks come off the scraper. Gary Davis showed me this 25 years ago. Works great!

Offline boxerboxer

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2021, 12:25:48 pm »
This is my setup. Been working well for a few years. Needs a better vice though.

https://youtu.be/NesC9vxE580
https://youtu.be/3hG4ohjQUm0

This looks awesome! Do you have any videos of you using it to work on the bow?

Offline RyanY

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2021, 06:23:10 pm »
Eric, I’ve been keeping things more private online since starting my practice. Just a but of paranoia us psychiatrists have.  ;D

Boxerboxer, here’s the only video I’ve taken. If I remember I’ll get a better one in the future. The stave usually rests on my right leg.

https://youtu.be/ipyZ-fb-sJ4

bownarra

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2021, 01:47:38 am »
The easiest way to sharpen a scarper is with a 1 inch belt sander. Turn on the sander. Push the scraper across the belt. You want to see sparks come off the scraper. Gary Davis showed me this 25 years ago. Works great!

That is the first step to sharpening a cabinet scraper ;)
Look up Dean Torges description of how to sharpen a scraper. For anybody interested it is well worth reading :) There are some good videos on youtube but you will have to turn your discretion on.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Ergonomics
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2021, 08:57:01 am »
I don't just make bows so my setup is for multitasking, the post is a necessity to keep what ever  am working on from coming loose in the vise jaws when I am shaping wood with aggressive tools.