Author Topic: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew  (Read 5112 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rowan Bows

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 115
German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« on: September 10, 2021, 03:55:06 am »
I always wanted to build the germanic Oberflacht bow. Ive made it from Thuringian yew quiet fine groth rings. Special about this bow is the long handle and the 5 edge narrow shape. 1,90m long but 30cm long handle and 7cm stiff tips so the effektive bending leigh is quiet short. The bending area is very short so its basically working like a short bow. I didnt attach a leather handle cause it wouldn be authentic.
Medieval bows had no leather handle cause you shove the middle depending on the weather and the changing tiller especially at this bow here with the 30cm long handle. Also it has one side carved nocks just like the Original. It is supposed that people in medieval times even made 2 knodes on both bow tips - thats why. In original the sapwood was not reduced but I did that here. I carved off like 5 rings to get a 1/4 sapwood heartwood. the back was chased very carefully.

You can watch the whole build here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvs7SkMGfaw

and see detail fotos and fotos of the Orininal found here: https://imgur.com/a/Oiu1U5O

Thank you very much for beeing here!



« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 04:40:06 am by Rowan Bows »

Offline simk

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,159
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2021, 05:10:56 am »
thanx for the nice and interesting pics. nice bow, fine attention to detail  :OK our ancestors definitly weren't obsessed with optimum performace (as we are) but practicability 
--- the queen rules ----

Offline Hamish

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,557
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2021, 06:47:14 am »
So much to love about your videos bud! You have the bow of course, then your tillering skills with the drawknife, very daring but you pull it off(I would not be so brave). Then you have the humor. Chainsaw noise had me laughing ;D. I don't know if humor was intended but I appreciated the use of your target, the hale bales. They look like giant versions of traditional targets.

Back to the bow. I have always found this style of bow interesting, since first seeing it in Das Bogenbauer Buch. It looks cool, but has so many features on it that would make it a bad design, like the extra weight above the nocks, long double section  handle area, that reduces bendable length, and a high and sharply peaked belly. Despite all these features I still find it a lovely and intriguing design. It seems the double midsection handle was rediscovered in the 20th C, with some of the 1930's flatbow designs in America. I haven't heard of any references to the Oberflacht bow when they brought the usage back.

My only question was why you didn't even up the deflex over a form with dry heat? Nevertheless you did a fine job.

Oh yeah, please don't tell my mum. ;D

Offline simson

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,310
  • stonehill-primitive-bows
    • stonehill-primitive-bows
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2021, 10:08:46 am »
good replica work.
As Hamish said, same for me. There are some design elements slowing down this bow ...
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline Rowan Bows

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 115
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2021, 03:51:36 pm »
Well thank you guys and I will reply to you both now - I wanted to make a replika and find out if it shoots as good as jürgen junkmanns descripes it in his book "Pfeil und Bogen von der Altsteinzeit bis zum Mittelalter". He descripes a quiet high speed of arrow although there are so many uneffective points of design. but still a fast bow cause its basically a shortbow cause of the small bending area

also as a German its an honor for me to build a dark ages germanic bow and even I could have heat treated or flex this bow for more power - cause I had very good result especially with heat treating - I didnt do that cause I wanted to make exactly what our ancestors did. also I dont know how this shape would react on heat treating

I really think its a big question of origin and prestige in this design. the "mikulcice" bow was found in czech and has very similar
characteristics and junkmanns also supposes that the desing comes from the east and is brought to us by slavic tribes. allemannen means "everyone" a mixed tribe.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 02:19:37 pm by Rowan Bows »

Offline Hamish

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,557
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2021, 07:36:14 pm »
As you mentioned the original bow was shorter. Do you think it would have been drawn shorter than a contemporary bow, eg to the chest rather than to the jaw or the ear?

Offline George Tsoukalas

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,425
    • Traditional and Primitive Archers
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2021, 09:02:53 pm »
Very nicely done. You made a nice replica bow. Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Gimlis Ghost

  • Member
  • Posts: 254
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2021, 10:32:37 pm »

also as a German its an honor for me to build a medieval germanic bow and even I could have heat treated or flex this bow for more power - cause I had very good result especially with heat treating - I didnt do that cause I wanted to have this time traveling and make exactly what our ancestors did.


I was especially pleased to see this bow. A few weeks ago I was reading about the early Germanic warriors and their weapons and such bows were mentioned but without much detail. This aroused my curiosity, but I could find no further information on the subject at the time.

bownarra

  • Guest
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2021, 03:20:59 am »
These old bows designs are interesting but I think it is a mistake to think these bow finds are representative of the best or even average bows of the day. As mentioned there are many poor design choices. Think back to the holmguaard design - one of the absolute best flatbow designs going and made quite a while ago :) Ancient people knew how to build good bows, the wood talks to you the same now as it did back then :) Once you learn to listen good bows are a result. Early man could listen ;)
It would be fascinating to have spoken to the person who actually made it, ask them the why's, what's and wherefore's.

Offline Rowan Bows

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 115
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2021, 05:47:02 am »
Yeah I know and this bow is not "THE german bow" the most found bow shapes in northern europe were simple d shaped longbows with longer tips for example the nydam. this oberflacht is just one special design which was never found again except a quiet similar find in czech the "Mikulčice"
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/530791506066743631/. it is supposed that the alamans copied that style.

the arrows that were found were around 60cm long thats 23" draw. I mentioned that in the video too. So Ive build it a little bit longer that it can stand 28". My bow is 1,95cm with a 30cm handle and 7cm tips so the effective leigh is only ~140cm. the origins were 1,69m up to 1,84m. the bows dont shot like a longbow they work like a shortbow. it shoots around 144fps with 28gram arrows - thats not superfast but its not bad also. (everything in the video)

I think the most effective primitive bow shape is still the Mollegabet ~4500BC. These bows were always my fastest...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 06:11:53 am by Rowan Bows »

Offline lonbow

  • Member
  • Posts: 139
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2021, 06:14:11 am »
That´s a very nice bow and video you´ve made :) I have a nice stave at home that is perfect for building an Oberflacht bow. I should definitely make one aswell!

I think it´s important to note that Holger Riesch (experimental archaeologist and author on historical bow designs) noted that most of the Oberflacht bows were probably made as burial objects and not finished for real usage therefore. His replicas with the original dimensions of the bow (found in grave 21) were much to strong for the given design parameters and the material failed at draw lengths between 38,5 and 43,5 cm. It wasn´t possible to shoot arrows effectively with these bows. By reducing the thickness by 3 to 4 mm, he was able to shoot the arrows at full draw (only 53 cm/ 21 inches).  The arrows found together with the bows were quite short. The draw weights of his replica bows were bethween 66 and 77 lbs. Holger Riesch noticed that the bows shot smoothly without much handshock, but they weren´t effective at long distances due to the short draw lengths.

lonbow

You can find Holger Rieschs contribution on: "Das Bogenbauer-Buch, Europäischer Bogenbau von der Steinzeit bis heute", pp. 104-124.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 06:19:50 am by lonbow »

Offline lonbow

  • Member
  • Posts: 139
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2021, 07:03:05 am »
I just thought about the bow findings being made as burial objects, which means that they were intended as ceremonial objects and not for real usage.  It could be that the characteristic features of bows were stylized and therefore amplified. So the grip sections of the findings for example might be a bit longer than usual in order to emphasize the characteristic look. This is speculative of course.

Offline Rowan Bows

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 115
Re: German Oberflacht Bow ~500 AD 47lbs@28" Yew
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2021, 05:47:31 am »
Hey lonbow very interesting - didnt know that. My main source for building this bow was Jürgen Junkmanns "Pfeil und Bogen - von der Altsteinzeit bis zum Mittelalter" I didnt read anything about having these bows only as burial objekts but maybe I didnt read closely enough. The arrows that were found had a leigh from 40-60cm so they fit to the bows...