Author Topic: hickory pyramid questions  (Read 1256 times)

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Offline WhistlingBadger

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hickory pyramid questions
« on: July 20, 2021, 06:44:02 pm »
Hi, all.  I have another nice, clean hickory stave to start on.  As much as I like the sudburyish bows, I thought I'd try a pyramid profile for this one.

First question:  Is my design sound?  I'm going for 55#@27".  70" total length.  4" handle, 3" long fades out to 2" width.  (Is that a long enough fade?)  Tapering to 1/2" at the tips.  Sound right?  Any changes you'd make?

Second question:  The grain has this very slight zig zag on one end.  It would sit in about the last 6" of the limb.  Should I follow it and have a little kink in the end of my bow, or (this being hickory) should I just ignore it and accept the run-off?
20210720_124941[1] by Whistling Badger, on Flickr

20210720_124952[1] by Whistling Badger, on Flickr
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2021, 07:17:23 pm »
Another design question:  I noticed on my last build that if you center your grip, the arrow pass ends up about 2" off center.  That made tillering feel a little weird.  Is that as it should be, or do you build your grip off-center so the arrow pass is centered?  Is this why some bows have a shorter lower limb?
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline Pat B

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2021, 07:30:47 pm »
The traditional way was to go 1 1/4" above center and 2 3/4" below the center line for a 4" handle. I prefer the center of the bow the center of the handle because I can see proper tiller best that way. Whatever works best for you is how you should build it.
 A pyramid is a good design for hickory. You could shorten that 70" a bit if you wanted to. 66" to 68" would work for your draw length and weight.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

bownarra

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2021, 04:33:06 am »
Follow the wiggle 100%! Do not cut through the grain!
I would statrt at 67" nock to nock. Your 2" width at the fades is good to start with. However I would say that 1 3/4" is likely to be wide enough. You can reduce the width later on in tillering if the bow is showing no set.    Narrower and thicker is more efficent than wider and thinner. You don't want to be too wide but nor too narrow.....Also no problem to work the tips width down to 3/8ths but leave this until you are at 24" or so of draw so that you can check true braced alignment.
Fade length is personal preference really. You can go as short as 1 1/2" to around 4". The shorter and more abrupt the fades the more likely you are to run into trouble. Longer , shallower fades help to make the transistion more gradual and spread the load. If I were making a 67" / 27" draw bow I would probably make the fades 2 - 2 1/2".
It is best to have the lower limb a bit shorter because when bows are made this way as appossed to centered grip the bow will 'carry' much better and balance in your hand. Centered bows will always feel lower limb heavy. Might not sound like much but it is one of those things that makes a difference :)
Remember a pyramid bow will have little thickness taper. This (more or less) constant thickness dictates a circular tiller, same thickness = same safe bend. Make your self a tillering gizmo or use a 6" straight edge to help judge the bend.

Offline mmattockx

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2021, 12:28:13 pm »
First question:  Is my design sound?  I'm going for 55#@27".  70" total length.  4" handle, 3" long fades out to 2" width.  (Is that a long enough fade?)  Tapering to 1/2" at the tips.  Sound right?  Any changes you'd make?

Second question:  The grain has this very slight zig zag on one end.  It would sit in about the last 6" of the limb.  Should I follow it and have a little kink in the end of my bow, or (this being hickory) should I just ignore it and accept the run-off?

As noted you could go shorter, down to 66-67" for sure. I would also say you can go narrower at the tips than 1/2". My last pyramid bow I went to 5/16" at the nocks and it was fine.

On the zig zag it is hard to tell from the pics, but I would sketch out the back profile on the limb and see how it looks. With hickory and the pyramid design I would be tempted to cut it straight and ignore the run out, but that is dependent on the fine details of the grain at the tip. If you do a straight pyramid taper to 1/2" tips the tips will naturally come out stiff and the stresses drop off there, making any run out less of a problem.

When cutting your back profile keep the limbs parallel out of the fades for a couple inches before you begin the width taper. That gives you more leeway on getting the limbs bending out of the fades without a hinge forming there. If you start the width taper right at the end of the fades it is easy to get a hinge started at that spot.


Mark

Offline WhistlingBadger

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2021, 01:32:15 pm »
OK, thanks, guys.  That is tremendously helpful.  I sketched out the back profile, and following that little zig at the end moves the string a bit off center, which I like because it seems to make a bow more forgiving on spine.  Looks kind of pleasantly goofy, too.

One more question before I get choppin':  How thick should I rough out the limbs before I start floor tillering?  I was thinking about 5/8-3/4.
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline Pat B

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2021, 04:37:59 pm »
5/8" should be plenty.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline mmattockx

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2021, 06:37:18 pm »
One more question before I get choppin':  How thick should I rough out the limbs before I start floor tillering?  I was thinking about 5/8-3/4.

I doubt you will be able to bend it much even at 5/8". My last bow was a hard maple pyramid, 67"NtN and ~40lb. The final limb thickness was a touch over 3/8".


Mark

bownarra

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Re: hickory pyramid questions
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 03:40:11 am »
Yes start at 5/8ths thick.