Author Topic: English long bow rules.  (Read 2594 times)

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Offline RyanY

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Re: English long bow rules.
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2021, 06:18:09 pm »
I agree with Del’s point but often the grip is left so thick that the extra strain at the center doesn’t really matter. It also detracts from the aesthetic look of an ELB when there’s a noticeably raised handle section, though I am aware that many bows over time have been made in that fashion.

As far as hand shock, it makes sense that a circular tiller could result in hand shock with excessive outer limb mass if designed that way. Bownarra’s design sounds quite wide in the outer limbs to me for starting at only 1” wide in the center and 3/4” 8” from the tips. For a 68” long bow that would be a taper of 1/4” over 24”. If that were a straight taper it would result in nocks over 5/8” wide. A pyramid taper to 3/8” nocks would put the 3/4” width before mid limb. Those are pretty drastic differences in where that width is placed. He of course recommended an elliptical tiller which would move that mass more efficiently than the circular tiller.

Offline Hamish

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Re: English long bow rules.
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2021, 09:12:30 pm »
re Bowanarra's elb limb width design: I came up independently through trial and error with virtually exactly the same layout limb (15/16"). I prefer it because the extra width 8" from the tips greatly reduces the tendency to twist sideways, which is common when using tropical hardwoods, with elb's.

Not saying a pyramid taper doesn't work, but you will lessen your chance of issues.
I laugh when I think about tillering really narrow longbows ie 3/4" wide. No matter how I lay the limbs out, as often as not when first stringing the bow They usually want to bend sideways, so you have to slowly train it to bend in the desired conventional way.

Offline RyanY

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Re: English long bow rules.
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2021, 09:20:02 pm »
Makes a lot of sense to design the bow that way. Particularly with those woods. The problem I see with the layout comes when people tiller it to a circular shape or worse, with too much bend in the inner limbs/stiff outer limbs as we so often see.

bownarra

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Re: English long bow rules.
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2021, 02:45:14 am »
Add horn nocks when the bow is at about 24"
My width taper works very well. I haven't had an elb bend sideways in a long time. I made a perfect template out of a 0.050" glass strip this eliminates any layout issues. Side bend is normally width layout/centerline off, or reduction of the limbs unevenly. Or of course a less than optimal straight width taper, they aren't the best idea (if you went that route though the tiller would need to be a little more circular...but only a little!)).
I taper from the edge of the grip - remember unless you are aiming for a bow cut out at dimension you will be removing a fair bit of material from the limbs anyway so the handle won't bend too much. I never have that problem, it is more to do with the thickness there than where you start the taper.
Del you may not know where the circular tiller handshock thing comes from but it ain't no fantasy :)  Not trying to get into a pissing match but I too have made a few :) Somewhere around 300 elbs now, I'd like to think I know what i'm talking about by now haha ;) Things that many of my customers have said about my bows confirm that I must be on the right path - its not just my ego talking.
Like most things bow making....many ways to skin the cat......but by definition one way is optimal :)

Offline Del the cat

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Re: English long bow rules.
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2021, 06:40:46 am »
I think maybe there is some misunderstanding...
My suggestion to leave the tips wide until later in the build (say the point when nocks are added) is just a wise precaution for anyone not used to making ELBs or anyone using a stave, it's not a criticism of any suggested profile.
Obviously the risk of the bow bending sideways are less when using laminates, in which case cutting out to a template is fine.
 Regarding thickness taper at the grip, I would imagine (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that if using tapered core laminations they would meet near the centre, with the back and belly either being parallel or again tapered from the near centre? However I expect many laminated bows have a riser section which will give a stiffer grip.
Arc of a circle tiller doesn't IMO mean a weak grip with too much bend there, it can include a stiff grip or riser with each limb being arc of a circle, (the circles being centred at the extremities of the grip rather than the centre of the bow).
I can only say what I've found to cause hand shock and that has been a poorly shaped grip, presumably those who say it's due to circular tiller have made or shot bows with hand shock or have shot poorly made bows and attributed the shock to "circular" tiller rather than simply "bad" tiller. If you can see the bend at the grip then it's probably bad tiller eg, like a bit of 1x1" with no taper at all.
Del
PS. I have no interest in "pissing contests" as, at my age I would doubtless lose!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 07:42:49 am by Del the cat »
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