2 staves that have been waiting for me to get started. One thick ring and one thin ring. Jonesin' to get a crack at the thin ringed one, so I chased a ring a week ago. Ring violations at both knots, so I chased the next ring down. Ring violations at both knots. The rings get paper thin in both places. I got up this morning and had another go at it. I started at the big knot, and left it proud. I can finish it up with a pocket knife, but I have a clean back. I think I'm feeling my age, as this one has tried my patience, but I believe I can get a pretty sweet shooter out of it, knots and all.