Author Topic: Sinew backing question  (Read 1418 times)

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Offline ssrhythm

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Sinew backing question
« on: June 29, 2021, 05:52:04 pm »
Ok.  So I've done one sinew job, and it was on my first attempt at a bow that happened to pop a splinter at a pin knot that I skinned after I recurved the tips.  I don't know how good or bad the sinew job was, and I never got the chance to assess what I could do better next time, because it the bow was too far gone and it didn't hold up where that splinter had popped. 

I am now working on a 67" osage bow that I have tillered fairly well to 53# at 28"... I say tillered fairly well because I have both limbs bending beautifully and the tips are flipped to the point where the bow is almost a technical recurve, but not quite...problem is, the top limb is a tad stronger than the bottom, and by the time I get the bottom limb slightly stronger like I want it, its going to be in the 49-50# range. 

I am making this to be a bow I go after elk with this year, and I want it to come in at 57-59#.  So the way I understand it, I have a couple of ways I can go from here.

I can add more recurve, but I really don't think I want to try to increase the severity of the bends at the tips where it's still plenty thick due to the risk of cracking them there.  I'm pretty sure that if I come in toward the handle and add more reflex/recurve there...well, I'm afraid it's too thin there for the bends to hold.  On top of that, I'm really wanting this to be a slightly reflexed design that is not a true recurve.

Next option is to shorten the limbs, but I'm not sure I want to go that route either...but its an option, albiet one that I'd like to save as a last resort.

Next option is to back it with sinew, and I'm leaning this way.  This is going to be my western hunting bow, so I'm not worried about humidity affecting its performance over time.  The limbs...I can't remember the exact width of the limbs and I'm out of town until next week...but the limbs are slightly less than 1.5" wide.  Its holding a slight bit of reflex from the handle out to about 6" from each tip where the limbs then recurve fairly sharply.

So, here are my sinew questions.

1.  Am I correct that I need to add sinew to equal approximately 1/4 the limb thickness to get the true performance increase that can be had with sinew?  I've seen where I need to put at least three layers on there to increase performance.

2.  Sinew is heaver than wood, so backing all the way to the tips is not as advantageous as ending the sinew backing where the limb tips are stiff and are no longer working.  My question here is whether or not I need to tie down/wrap where the sinew ends to keep it from pulling up when its drying?  I see where people do this on full length backing jobs to keep the sinew from pulling up off of the recurves, but if the ends of the sinew stop before the recurves, do they need to be wrapped?

3.  I've read where folks say you should crown the sinew backing by adding more down the center of the bow than toward the edges of the limbs.  Why is this?  My understanding, which could be very off, is that if crowned, a smaller, center portion of the width of the back will be the tension plane and thus be doing all or more of the tension work.  Sinew can take that extra tension work, but why would you want it to vs having the entire width of the sinew backing doing the work?  Is it to keep the sinew back in tension from overpowering the osage belly that is the compression plane...thus possibly lowering the chances that the bow will take a set?  Explanations of y'alls understanding on this are greatly appreciated, but simply telling me the best way to do this sinew job will certainly suffice. 

Thanks in advance.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 05:56:52 pm by ssrhythm »

Offline BowEd

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2021, 07:23:04 pm »
Sinewing on just the crown or thicker there reduces mass weight overall on your limbs.Let the sinew do it's work.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline bassman211

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2021, 07:54:10 pm »
The first thing I would try would be to give the weak limb a good belly heat treat. Then check the bow weight, and tiller.

Offline Fox

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2021, 12:27:27 am »
67"? I've been told the much past 60" and sinew has diminishing returns... I would think heat treating and adding more reflex would be the best option.
Why must we make simple things so complicated?

bownarra

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2021, 02:26:24 am »
Sinew has low bend resistance so you will have to adda decent amount. 60 grams should be about right.
No need to go to a 1/4 of limb thickness.
No need to wrap the feathered out section just feather it out well :) It will look a mess when you first do it but once dry you can sand it into shape.
When crowning sinew you only want one thin layer covering the whole back, then progressively more as you move towards the limbs center of width. Sinew , being heavy needs to be stressed more - a higher crown stresses that section more.
Sinew will never 'overpower' a wooden belly. It has low stretch resistance and can stretch upto 7 or 8%. Wood can only compress 1% before damage.

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2021, 11:30:30 am »
I think your limbs are going to be too long to really get anything much from the sinew. I would strongly suggest you shorten limbs on this bow, or start a new one that is shorter.

You could go with something as short as 60 inches and turn out a safe bow that would light the fletchings a-fire!
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2021, 01:06:45 pm »
You could string the bow backwards before backing to get the sinew working more.

Offline ssrhythm

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2021, 07:15:33 pm »
Thanks for the replies.  I have another bow I'm nearing floor tiller on, and it is 4-5 inches shorter with 1.75 ish inch wide limbs.  It has a ton of pins on the back, but they are all good to go with plenty of wood left on each.  I'm going to have to do some bending at the handle to get the string running thru the center of the handle area, and the tillering is going to be tricky with some areas of concavity and convexity on each limb.  It'll be a very cool bow as long as I take my time and keep the limb thickness consistent in those undulating areas.  I am still going to try to get the most out of the stick I'm working on now,  as it is just a really studly and fuss free piece of wood.  I'll reassess taking some length off and will post pics of each as I progress when I get back home.  Thanks again for the replies.

bownarra

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2021, 04:17:53 am »
When you say 'plenty of wood left on each'.....pin knots shouldn't be raised if that is what you mean. You should follow the same ring for the whole back. A little extra width around knots is the way to go.

Offline ssrhythm

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Re: Sinew backing question
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2021, 08:58:49 pm »
I backed the bow sometime this past winter, and I left an Island of wood around each pin.  What I've been doing since "skinning" the pin that ended up being a fatal flaw in that first bow I referenced is leaving a small island of wood around each pin when I'm chasing the ring that i know is going to be my back.  Once I get to where I'm progressing with the bow and start getting it close to floor tiller, I'll put it back in the vice and start carefully working that island of wood down from the very edge of each pin outward with a smaller, more controllable (than my drawknife) woodworking  carving tool until its all down to the backing ring and I'll lightly, gently "scrape" any remaining early wood off.  If there are just a few pins here and there, I might just work it with my drawknife as I back it, but this thing has quite a few up and down the entire stave from one edge to the other...combined with the undulating back (not in a refelex/deflex undulation but concave and convex areas parallel to each other running tip to tip), it would have been really, really easy to "slip" or accidentally knock the top off of one of the pins while concentrating on taking down a nearby spot.