3 holmgaards

[BowEd]

Willie.....
At least a 60/40 ratio.The  more extreme the more work.Even eliptical tiller benefits in a smaller way with the last 6" to tip being stiff if tillered correctly.It still all depends on the health of the working limbs.It's one reason why my local hickory pleases me.It's dense enough.Tough enough.Loves a heat treatment gaining draw weight which promotes side tillering to lighten limbs.
Bamboo backed bows of a dense wood is top shelf.
Badger in the past made some super bows in the holmgaard design with needle like tips.

[meanewood]

Dogma 1 v 0 Reason
Anything said by anyone is pretty much worthless when it contradicts provable facts and they are that the Holmgaard artifact has a reasonably even taper in both width and depth considering that this was achieved with stone tools.
The mollegabet artifact however has a noticeable 'shoulder' in the width taper and its depth remains constant at this point until the tip.
This represents a considerable difference in design and how it would be tillered.
It is common to refer to archaeological artifacts by referring to the place where they were found ie Tolund man, Nydam bows, Gokstad ship
This confusion and difference of opinion is being driven by dogma and there is no need to perpetuate this when the facts should be apparent to anyone.
I reserve the right to call my bows Tom, Dick or Harry but it would not be helpful as a descriptive reference.

[BowEd]

Willie.....
At least a 60/40 ratio.The  more extreme the more work.Even eliptical tiller benefits in a smaller way with the last 6" to tip being stiff if tillered correctly.It still all depends on the health of the working limbs.It's one reason why my local hickory pleases me.It's dense enough.Tough enough.Loves a heat treatment gaining draw weight which promotes side tillering to lighten limbs.
Bamboo backed bows of a dense wood is top shelf.
Badger in the past made some super bows in the holmgaard design with needle like tips.

Handle size will mean a lot too.I've built them with 8" handles up to 10" handles.

[BowEd]

Dogma 1 v 0 Reason
Anything said by anyone is pretty much worthless when it contradicts provable facts and they are that the Holmgaard artifact has a reasonably even taper in both width and depth considering that this was achieved with stone tools.
The mollegabet artifact however has a noticeable 'shoulder' in the width taper and its depth remains constant at this point until the tip.
This represents a considerable difference in design and how it would be tillered.
It is common to refer to archaeological artifacts by referring to the place where they were found ie Tolund man, Nydam bows, Gokstad ship
This confusion and difference of opinion is being driven by dogma and there is no need to perpetuate this when the facts should be apparent to anyone.
I reserve the right to call my bows Tom, Dick or Harry but it would not be helpful as a descriptive reference.

Each to his own opinion and that's as far as it goes here.As I said before I'm not confused about the bows I posted.

[bassman211]

nice

[AndrewS]

Ed, I have always said that these types of bows are excellent, that I myself am also excited about the design. I have also built such bows from a wide variety of woods.The design and principle behind it is just good.

But this design is not like the Holmegaard! The Holmegaard principle is also misnamed, because the Holmegaard principle, is that of a normal flat bow.
Callahan built a replica and drew conclusions from the replica. On the same basis (starting from the original find) other bow makers made replicas and came to different results. So that also other conclusions were drawn.
What makes the result of Callahan more correct than the results of the other researchers and bow makers???
That he worked with Tim Baker, who may have whispered design considerations to him?
That he slightly overemphasized the shoulders in the limbs and thus influenced the result?
He writes himself that his replica would not be 100% like the original, that it would be a bit thinner...
As a bow maker, you know yourself that a few chips in the wrong place decide whether the bow is a premium bow or firewood.

Holmegaard is and remains the wrong name for a bow with pronounced shoulders just as it is the wrong name for the Tiller principle with the long stiff lever ends.
The third volume of the TBB came on the market over 25 years ago. Callahan himself was in Denmark over 40 years ago. To date, there are many new results from other researchers who have also investigated with newer methods that challenge the older results.

Callahan principle would give E. Callahan more posthumous credit for his work than harping on false interpretations. 

[HH~]

What's in a name Ed? Look like a Holmgaard to me or a Royal wit Cheese. Thing is you'll hunt em and fill the pot with what they were intended for.. . .  Killin food fer the pot. Don't sweat the Bander Log Ed. They not killing any critters with what they make.

HH~

[BowEd]

Andrew.....We in the past got into making these type of bows because of the qualities it has as stated.To even go into making them into a D/R design also.Although a person has to be careful to not reflex the ultra thin levers too much for stability reasons.These descriptions do not change the dynamics of these bows.
Your points are well taken.Tims' sometimes over ambitious nature could very well influence the results.The majority of his writings are still spot on and have helped many a new bowyer get bows built under his belt.
I would imagine noone would be offended if a holmgaard bow was posted as a flat bow then because that's just what it is.This is all rather silly in my mind as I have a more practical outlook on such things.
In the future maybe I will post them as mesolithic type bows as a general description to appease those who seem to be offended.Until then people will just have to grin and bear it.
You will have to excuse my stubborn nature but as an independent farmer it's that stubborn nature that gets things done.It's all relative to me.
HH.....I hear what your saying.

[Badger]

    Wow! Those are some beautiful bows Ed. You did an exceptional job holding the reflex. I can't wait to hear how far they will cast an arrow!

[BowEd]

Thanks Steve.Hav'nt heard from you in a while.Your friend Tim is getting looked over here.I must say again you guys did us all a favor putting out those BB books.
I'm quite confident of these bows' cast.My main concern nowadays is the amount of KE I can get from heavier arrows.I did something different.I only tillered these bows out to 20" with minmal set as a flat profiled bow.Estimating it's final draw weight at that stage to be what I wanted at 28" taking into account each woods draw weight gains from heat treating from past experience.Goal was to hit draw weight without any further removal of wood and be in tiller.Osage won't gain much but did from the set in reflex.Hickory gained 7 to 8 pounds mostly from heat treatment maybe some from reflex and black locust gained little from heat treatment or reflex which is why it's only at 45#'s.Knowing the differences in wood is what I tried to use to my advantage for less stress and set.
For the aspiring bowyers out there.....Get familiar with what counts the most.It'll make you a better bowyer of these self bows in the design department and understanding it.History is history and should not and will not ever go away.A name of origin is paper thin compared to the depth of understanding it's function.It's where the rubber meets the road.