Judging incorrect tiller by arrow flight ??

[Fox]

I hear lots of people fixing there tiller to arrow flight... the bow I’m working on now is shooting arrows so that the tail of the arrow flips up.... what does that mean?

[Jakesnyder]

Is your nocking point too high?

[Flntknp17]

I definitely judge final tiller based somewhat on how the bow shoots.  The closer you get to good tiller, the better the arrow flight will be, all else being equal.  The bow will also respond better on the shot; less shock and noise and better velocity.

Matt

[bradsmith2010]

Fox, it may not be the tiller,, maybe nocking point,, maybe brace height,, maybe that arrow,, lots of variables,,also where your arrow is placed on the bow,,
try moving the knocking point, and also where you are shooting the arrow off the bow,, and see if there is a sweet spot,,,,

[Fox]

Okay...how do guys find the correct knocking point? I always just eyeball it, I don't have a bow square or anything...

I also hear of people feeling the bow "rock in their hand" if the tiller is too positive or negative?

[bradsmith2010]

ok get the bow to balance in your hand,, put a mark where you want to shoot the arrow from,, bout 1 inch or 1 1/2 for me above center9   not always, I have one bow that shoots best right at center of bow,,
ok now nock an arrow and shoot, take notice to where that was,,
now nock one too low, shoot,, nock one too high shoot,, feel the difference and see the difference in arrow flight, somewhere between too low and too high the arrow will fly the best,,
   keep in mind  your release   arrow spine and brace are effecting arrow flight, just eliminate one thing at a time,, also your hold on the bow loose are hard,, usually the arrow just wispers past my hand,, if tiller is right for me, this will vary person to person,,so dont get discourged if it takes a few days to learn how to get the bow to shoot with good arrow flight,
   ok now you have found best nocking point,, now move where you shooting the arrow from up and down and find sweet spot for that,,
   ok now make the brace too low shoot,, make the brace to high shoot find the sweet spot for your brace,,
   that should get you started pretty good,, if the arrow is hitting your hand when you shoot, the tiller might need to be adjusted a bit more positive, but I would work on the other things before adjusting tiller ,,,if it looks good on tree,, ,
   if you have another bow that shoots great arrow flight,, then you know your release is capable of that,,
   can you tell me the draw and poundage of this bow, brace height.. length of arrow and spine you are shooting and I can guess at some things,, are you sure you have the best limb up for clearance, etc,,

[Del the cat]

No IMO!
Looking at it unbraced, braced and flexing to full draw is  IMO a much quicker easier and more accurate way of judging the tiller.
Arrow flight is influenced a lot by the arrow, and some fine tuning of nocking point, brace height and arrow pass.
Del

[Dances with squirrels]

I balance the strength of the limbs relative to my holds. I never have arrow flight issues, maybe left and right until i figure out the best arrow spine, but never up and down, and I never have to move the nock point. Just sayin.

Fix the tiller.

Here's what I do in a nutshell...

Put the bow on the tillering tree so the handle is centered, and mostly immobile. Figure out where you want the nock point. I set mine 3/8" above perpendicular to the shelf, which puts the bottom of the arrow nock 1/8" above. Now you can figure out exactly where your string hand will be on the string. And from there, find where your string had fulcrum will actually be. For most people their fulcrum is about where the middle finger is. Put a mark on the wall there, under the tillering tree cradle, right where your middle finger will be on the string, and draw a plumb/vertical line down the wall to the floor. Use this line for the pulley location. In other words, the pulley should be precisely aligned with your string hand fulcrum.

Place the hook on the string where the line is, and draw the bow. If there is imbalance, the hook will drift toward the stronger limb as the bow is drawn. Weaken it. Continue assessing and correcting the limb strengths as you tiller your way down the tree until the hook follows the line to full draw. Done. Limb strength balanced relative to you. Perfect arrow flight. A smooth balanced draw. No handshock. You're welcome 

[Dances with squirrels]

I can understand guys needing to try to fix limb imbalance by moving the nock point, or where they apply pressure on the grip and such on finished, generically tillered production bows, but that need not be the case with us. Building bows in such a way that they need 'fixed' afterwards never made sense to me. Especially when it's easier, quicker, and more straightforward to make predictably balanced well behaved bows from the start. Nothing to fix when it's done. That's how I roll anyway

[Dances with squirrels]

"the bow I’m working on now is shooting arrows so that the tail of the arrow flips up.... what does that mean?"

Bottom limb is too strong. The result is, it can't flex as much during the draw, so its tip doesn't travel as far as the top limb tip. The result is, as I noted in my first post... the hook/fulcrum/arrow nock moves toward the lower limb as it's drawn(relative to the shelf which is stationary)... and then quickly back to where it was upon release, throwing the tail end of the arrow upwards. This creates arrow porpoising.

[Eric Krewson]

If you have a rest it could be a stiff top or bottom limb, with a stiff top the top limb is snatching forward quicker than the bottom and pulling the tail of the arrow nock high.

With a stiff bottom limb the limb is doing the same but the arrow is bouncing off the rest and flipping nock high.

If you have exaggerated nock high arrow flight it can be nock position. I don't use a square to set my nocks, I eyeball them at about 1/8" above square. If you move your nock up and down a bit with no improvement your limbs are out of time.

I find out of sync limb timing to be the culprit most of the time.

[Fox]

Lots of good info here... DWS, I don’t use a pulley system so that method isn’t going to be the most practical for me, but If I ever set one up I’ll give that a try...

 I’ll play around with some of these methods as I finish up this bow,

[bradsmith2010]

bow looks great
with right arrow nocking point,,and brace, good release should shoot great,,,let us know,,