Boiling bow blanks

[darinputman]

There has been a bit of talk lately about different forms of heating bows and I have been wanting to try boiling a stave. Why would I even want to try? Well I got a pit for fire hardening and have been looking for a container long enough to put a stave in and boil it before clamping it to my caul thus reflexing and straighening all at once. It seems that wood boiled for recurving limbs bends so easily that It may work out fine. May also be a total waste of time.
   Anybody ever tried this. Anbody that has not what are your thoughts also.

[bradsmith2010]

seems like it would work fine,, my only thought is you have to work so fast when bending boiled wood,, Im not sure how that would go,,

[darinputman]

Bradsmith I thought about that, even though about having it clamped to a caul already inducing a few corrections and seeing how that goes. One more question someone may know, if you boil a green osage blank will checking occur?

[Morgan]

Bradsmith I thought about that, even though about having it clamped to a caul already inducing a few corrections and seeing how that goes. One more question someone may know, if you boil a green osage blank will checking occur?

Cannot speak for osage, I know for certain that boiling the ends of a green elm sapling will check badly. That is the only green piece I’ve boiled because I read somewhere, maybe here, that boiling or steam worked well on green wood and dry heat on dry wood. That did not prove true on the piece that I tried and it split wide deep checks where I boiled it.

[Kidder]

Disclaimer that I’ve never boiled a whole stave and have built less than a dozen bows. However, I have boiled limb tips to recurve with mixed success - ok on locust, not on hickory. The locust did tend to check. But that is very different than “heat treating” which is what you mentioned. My concern would be that by heating the entire bow you’re heating the back as well and could be compromising it’s strength in tension. But maybe not. Either way, I doubt this would be considered a “heat treat”.

[darinputman]

Kidder your right I did mention heat treating but I did modify that so as not to confuse anyone else. Thanks, the purpose of boiling would be more for the purpose of reflexing and lining up tips. I personally never worry about the back getting too hot, I do worry about scorching the back but when bending osage I check my wood to see if its hot enough by touching the back if possible and when I can no longer touch it but for a second I consider it ready to bend or make correction. But I have ruint a few staves by scorching the back.

[bownarra]

There is no point in this. Much better to work on one area at a time. It will almost certainly cool too fast.
One thing that boiling is useful for is if you ever get some very difficult to dry expensive wood like say back and white ebony. You can get the m.c. down to reasonable levels by boiling the full piece, 1" thickness = 1 hour. Then remve and wrap in brown paper or similar for the next few % points of m.c., after a month or so you can safely dry the wood.

[darinputman]

I think that it could be a very good point to it especially if a person was to clamp it to a caul before boiling the wood. Boiling caul and all, same way when heating over coals using the fire hardening process,  getting heat all the way through the stave without scorching the back. I don't think it would be a problem to make a correction and put back in if necessary. It seems to me that once osage gets hot in water that the wood still bends even though it aint hot as I think it should be. Being able to make several corrections while it is in this state is what I'm after.
    Thanks for the comments. I do plan on trying this as soon as I can find a container about 6' long anybody got any suggestions on what to make one out of to try this cheaply, that would also hold up to a fire.

[Morgan]

20 gal drum split in half lengthwise and welded together where the open ends are? Made a bunch of water troughs out of 55 gal drums this way, 20 or 30 gal drums ought to be big enough for what you’re wanting to do though.

[darinputman]

Something like that is about the only thing I can come up with Morgan, it should be able to take the flames for a while. I keep hoping to find some junk that one of my buddys got laying around that will work but don't get out visiting like I use too.

[aja0]

Piece of rain gutter maybe?  But it would not be deep enough for a caul.

[PatM]

People have put a slanted iron pipe in the ground and then built a fire under it.

 Boiling is not good for wood when done too long.  I wouldn't use it for wood that needs to be working.

[darinputman]

Thanks aja0, thought about that to test it but may be a little thin.
     Patm. I got a block pit set up that I use to fire harden wood just really thinking about something to sit atop it to boil wood in. I never heard that it was bad for wood, but not planning on going to hot.  It always seems that when I boil my tips almost as if the wood swells up and softens at the same time. Wood seems to bend while in this state while it really is not even that hot anymore. Kinda amazes me that after applying a little heat it dries right up and seems tougher than before.

[gutpile]

I have steamed an Osage roughed out bow and clamped to a perry reflex type of form as when backing with boo.. had to get bow roughed out for a glue on handle. My set up is a 4" PVC pipe that has a couple of bolts set to keep bow suspended inside pipe glue capped on one end and rubber capped on other. then it has a T set up in middle of pipe that goes to a metal gas can that I fill with water and set over a turkey fryer propane set up.. attached with a fernco rubber sleeve.. it worked like a charm.. boiling a stave is possible but it will take forever and you will need almost a machine type press to bend it...you will need to reduce it down anyway IMO and it will bend much easier and faster which is critical..IMO...gut

[darinputman]

Gut sounds like you got a nice setup there. Sorry my communication skills aint always up to the task. What I'm really considering is boiling bow blanks not staves and I modified the title so as to cut down on any confusion.
    When I make a bow I like to get as close to finish dimensions as possible before even starting to tiller. I do so to the point that I come in too light sometimes, but that is kinda the way I like to build. It really helps me in my efforts to keep as much induced reflex as I can and next to a good tiller that is one of my priorities. So clamping down to caul for corrections shouldn't be an issue at all.
   I am getting ready to start building out of a tree that yeilded over a dozen good staves so I should be able to take these blanks down really close as they should act similar strengthwise. Thanks