Why do whip ended bows have a bad reputation?

[sleek]

Dude, you have no idea! You yourself said you haven't put the effort into verifying it and when you talk to folks who have, you ignore them!

Ahem... By verification I mean to provide independent published sources. I'm already aware many people here have covinced themselves that static recurves are better (mainly by buildng static recurves and otherwise non-whipping bows almost exclusively).

Read the two posts above yours, it would do you well. But why would you not accept what I have to say?

[scp]

Ok but I'm really not trying to argue with anyone, I'm asking for evidence. When did this idea that whip-ended bows are less efficient become the norm (as it appears to be among internet users) and for what reason? What research was conducted and when? Cos I've looked high and low and haven't really found anything that would justify the dogma. It's just an atttude that is particularly prevalent among internet forumites. A lot of notable authors advocate whip-ends; some less notable authors with cheapie self-publishers don't.

What you are missing is the fact that many people here are accomplished bow makers, some even with good competition records. Most of them have tried all kinds of style of bows. What they say have more weight than mere words of any published authors.

You did try to win your argument by quoting some theories or observations. But so far you only quoted theories or speculations concerning bows with whip-ended tips. Still you are asserting that whip-ended bows are better than static recurves.

I am trying to broaden your argument to make it applicable to working recurves that might be whip tillered, whatever that means. Then we might have something to consider seriously as many fiberglass recurves might be whip tillered. Do you have any idea what that means?

[sleek]

You came in here citing reference of material between 20 and 100 years old to formulate an opinion, pose that opinion as a question, then insist new knowledge isn't as valid as old, despite the world records, you mentioned before hand, set back then have all been exceeded save for a few. You must have a relatively low opinion of those you seek advice from to assume we can't possibly have a valid opinion because we weren't published almost 100 years ago.

[bradsmith2010]

I have self pubished,, does that count,, I havent posted here yet,, on this,,
guys that know how to make a bow ,, could make a whip tillered bow shoot well if they wanted,,and have,, but I dont think its the best design,, Im really not sure what the best design is,, for me its what I like to make that has relatively good cast,,

[Del the cat]

I have self pubished,, does that count,,

Don't be silly... it only counts if Tom quotes it...
And TBF... I think maybe we should listen to him once he's made a self bow that shoots over 200fps? 
Del

[sleek]

I have self pubished,, does that count,,

Don't be silly... it only counts if Tom quotes it...
And TBF... I think maybe we should listen to him once he's made a self bow that shoots over 200fps? 
Del

Well if you wanna be Frank Del, that's alright by me, but only if I get to be Barbara. His hypothetical bow that shoots over 200 fps needs to be a whip tillered bow as well. But, at what arrow weight?


Funny thing is Del, I have been of the opinion that whip tillered bows may actually be advantageous at lower arrow weights, I just haven't had the opportunity to do much but think about it, instead of build and experiment.   Id be willing to bet a flight arrow could easily go over 200 fps with a well made whip tillered bow. May even get good flight distance out of it. Doubt it would break the current record though. Like I said earlier, it would be a fun challenge, but this Tom guy talks to much to spend any time at it.

[PatM]

Dan Perry really did set a flight record with a quite  whip ended bow.  For some reason he disputed that it was actually whip ended despite it bending like a fishing rod at full draw.

  Then he blew that mark away with a stiff ended Mollie that even had a bit of set.   He even claimed that he unofficially broke 400 with it but the arrows were lost in a marsh past his shooting range.

[sleek]

Dan Perry really did set a flight record with a quite  whip ended bow.  For some reason he disputed that it was actually whip ended despite it bending like a fishing rod at full draw.

  Then he blew that mark away with a stiff ended Mollie that even had a bit of set.   He even claimed that he unofficially broke 400 with it but the arrows were lost in a marsh past his shooting range.

Well, that confirms it enough in my mind. When a guy like Perry makes a claim, im gonna hold it for truth. 400 yards though? Wow, i need to step up my game!

[Del the cat]

Dan Perry really did set a flight record with a quite  whip ended bow.  For some reason he disputed that it was actually whip ended despite it bending like a fishing rod at full draw.

  Then he blew that mark away with a stiff ended Mollie that even had a bit of set.   He even claimed that he unofficially broke 400 with it but the arrows were lost in a marsh past his shooting range.

Well, that confirms it enough in my mind. When a guy like Perry makes a claim, im gonna hold it for truth. 400 yards though? Wow, i need to step up my game!

It confirms what I said waaaay back... for every claim that whip ended is best, there's a claim that stiff ended is best.
Maybe this just shows its more about the bowyer than the style?
Del

[sleek]

Dan Perry really did set a flight record with a quite  whip ended bow.  For some reason he disputed that it was actually whip ended despite it bending like a fishing rod at full draw.

  Then he blew that mark away with a stiff ended Mollie that even had a bit of set.   He even claimed that he unofficially broke 400 with it but the arrows were lost in a marsh past his shooting range.

Well, that confirms it enough in my mind. When a guy like Perry makes a claim, im gonna hold it for truth. 400 yards though? Wow, i need to step up my game!

It confirms what I said waaaay back... for every claim that whip ended is best, there's a claim that stiff ended is best.
Maybe this just shows its more about the bowyer than the style?
Del

More to do with the bowyer than the style to a large degree, Unfortunately its impossible to separate the two, it also has much to do with quality of wood. But you know all that already. We just have to go off of trends in that case, an average. Of course, we can calculate exactly the energy storage in a whip tillered bow and know that the stiffer the tips are made, the more energy it stores ( assuming accommodation is made in the mid and inner limb ). And we can also calculate the efficiency that it throws an arrow. On average efficiency goes up but energy storage goes down. Id wager its not a linear exchange either with energy storage dropping faster than efficiency goes up.

I use the efficiency of whip tillered bows in my short recurves to a degree by keeping the bend all the way to my static recurves, without going too extreme. The idea being that bending towards the tips increases efficiency,  I want as much of that as possible to compensate for my lower energy storage of such a short bow, without bending the tips and loosing more energy. So far, that thinking has worked out for me. 

[PatM]

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/paleoplanet69529/flightshoot-at-wendover-t6275.html

[sleek]

Thanks for sharing that Pat. That link has lots to study.

[bradsmith2010]

yes thank you great read,,

[sleek]

Funny thing is, soon as you think you really done something, you find out there are others holding back. I was excited to think I had beaten Dan Perry's record. Now I read he actually sent those arrows another 50 yards. Sheesh. At this point however, as was mentioned in the link above, its time to focus on arrows, the bow shoots better than the arrows will fly.