Why do whip ended bows have a bad reputation?

[scp]

Or collect several bows. At least collect some full specs and illustrations.

[bownarra]

They have to go wider to handle that kind of bend though, right?

Err nope!

[bownarra]

Very easy to solve this if people won't believe facts.
Make a couple of bows, plot f/d curves, weigh some arrows and shoot through a chrono.
Come on now.....

[Tom Dulaney]

If it is facts I am denying, that means the experiment was already performed, hence no need for another experiment.

What you speak are not facts, but merely ideas. Other people had different ideas. Let us read them:

From Saxton Pope, Hunting With the Bow and Arrow, page 66:


https://books.google.com/books?id=Xn6rpcU32CEC&pg=PA66

In fact, while the actual work of making a bow takes about eight hours, it requires months to get one adjusted so that it is good. A bow, like a violin, is a work of art. The best in it can only be brought out by infinite care. Like a violin, it is all curved contours, there is not a straight line in it. Many of my bows have been built over completely three or four times. Old Horrible first pulled eighty-five pounds. It was reduced, shortened, whip ended and worked over again and again so to tune the wood that all parts worked in harmony. Every good bow is a work of love.

^Note the beauty of this language and purity of thought, so unlike that of modern Americans.


From Richard Middleton:


https://books.google.com/books?id=DVnY8C9KSqkC&pg=PT234

Another point of departure might be the quadrupling of limb-tip velocity which can theoretically be achieved by halving the limb length. Short limbs need not shorten the draw length of any bow; all that is required is a long stiff section between them - hence the whip ended bow of Ascham, and hence too most modern recurve bows with their cast metal hand sections.

The classical bow:






From Charles Longman and Henry Walrond, Archery, page 208:



https://books.google.com/books?id=yvRAAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA298

Several of the best shots never use a self bow, and probably the best backed bow for all-around purposes is the three-piece yew, fustic, and hickory bow, made quite straight and "whip-ended". This bow will cast well,
is soft in the hand, lasts longer and keeps its cast better than most of the two-piece bows, while the price is moderate, and it will give more even results as to range than a self-bow, unless the latter is invariably drawn to the same place.

From C.N. Hickman, Archery: The Technical Side, page 192:

On the basis that a bow weak in the middle is inefficient, a whip ended bow is in the right direction, the "circle" bow separating these two classes.

Everybody has different opinions but it looks like "the Godfathers" all wanted whip ended bows -- all the people against them seem to be anonymous blobs and teenagers who couldn't think for themselves

[Del the cat]

Oh dear... I'm glad I've kept out of this discussion... until now 
We have a classic case of someone (Tom Dulaney) criticising those with first hand experience by quoting what he's read and not realising the subtleties and linguistic problems of the subject.
It's like the old thing of "ellipitcal" where no one ever defines how eliptical, and after all a circle is just a special case of an ellipse.
What do we mean by whip ended?
If we take an arc of a circle tillered bow, cut it at the middle and insert a rigid 12" section... is it now eliptical? Is it whip tillered? Or is it just a bow whose limbs are arc of a circle tillered, but with an added riser?
The above is largely rhetorical.
Remember, for everything you read saying whip tillered is advantageous, you can find something else saying stiff levers on the end are advantageous!
(I'd kept out of it 'cos I don't profess to know the answer!) 
Del
PS, to try and bring hornbows into a discussion about whip tillered bows is simply crass

[PatM]

This is probably goodbye, Tom.  Good luck with your toenails.

[Allyn T]

None of those were experiments or had any factual data, they are just the opinions of the authors that those bows have "good" cast

[sleek]

Tom, are you capable of making a bow?

[PatM]

You can review his posts.

[RyanY]

After looking through Tom’s posts, it’s clear that this is a recurring issue of bringing up some bizarre theory that misunderstands the actual evidence, arguing with others, and just fading away till the next post. I could not find any evidence that he has any experience building bows. Not sure if this pattern is age or culturally related but the lack of open-mindedness and bias is strongly apparent.

[PatM]

When he said anonymous blob and teenager he was probably projecting.

[sleek]

I'm just wanting to know if he is capable of making a bow, and if so  I want to see whip tillered bows he has made that justify his point of view. Arguing with someone else's opinions using knowledge from another individual seems disingenuous. If his point is that someone said a whip tillered bow is superior,  then ok, sure. If his point is to argue with us based on someone else's supposition, then his only motivation was to come here looking for an argument,  not an answer and for that, I have no use.

So I am calling him out. Make a bow. Not just any bow. Make a whip tillered bow and then tell us why its superior to whatever it is you think its better than and why.

[sleek]

Id also request that this individual remove the insults and drug based comments from his replies, I dont want that to become representative of our community.

[scp]

Actually the issue itself is not a worthless one. The first several good replies are rather helpful in understanding the issue. They all assumed a reasonable person who at least tries to understand those kind replies. But the original poster does not appear to be interested in making pro and con arguments more clear. If still interested in the issue, someone need to start a new thread. The Hickman's statement quoted would be a good starting point.

[Tom Dulaney]

After looking through Tom’s posts, it’s clear that this is a recurring issue of bringing up some bizarre theory that misunderstands the actual evidence, arguing with others, and just fading away till the next post. I could not find any evidence that he has any experience building bows. Not sure if this pattern is age or culturally related but the lack of open-mindedness and bias is strongly apparent.

This is your third and final opportunity to provide a single verified reference that says anything to the contrary of what i said here.