First Osage - First Knot Question

[monoloco]

My first attempt and I'll admit I've made every mistake possible, but have learned a TON.  Started with a very crooked (bent) stave which had a fair share of knots, propeller twist, and was really too narrow for a flatbow.  Scorched it a little bending it, chose very thin rings to chase (so it took me 3 rings till I managed to avoid violating), tried using a burly pc of redbud for overlays which ended up having pith core where I needed solid...  Hey it's my first bow! 

Actually I feel pretty dang good about how straight I got it (handle is a little off-parallel to limbs) and the reflex (natural in one limb) is pretty even from limb to limb.

I'm shooting for 66NTN at around 50lb@27" but would not cry if I ended up with 35lb@25" (would give it to my wife :-).  Just started tillering and it's actually going (relatively) ok, but I've got a knot on edge where I have a stiff spot which concerns me.  In retrospect I wish I had left the 'meat' on the outboard side of knot.  It's the second one up from handle in photo.  Not much showing on face, but it's right on edge and that section overall is pretty thick.

Do I leave it as is, thin away and hope it doesn't fail there?
Do I cut it out making a swoopy 'sight window' and keep more mass/thickness there?
Do i turn the entire bow into something narrower and more ELB'ish (Strunk style...) - I think I might have enough meat left.  Right now I'm pulling it to 50+lb and it's not quite to fistmele.
Do I *have* to rawhide back it in order to not be handling a time-bomb later?

Thanks in advance to anyone who has the time to take a look!
a

[Yooper Bowyer]

You didn't say how wide the bow is at the knot, but I wouldn't worry to much about it.  the thickness there will keep it from bending too much and chrysaling.  One of my favorite bows has a very similar knot and the only issue is that it shortens the working limb.

I am concerned about the scorching on the back toward the upper tip; it looks pretty severe.  Anything above a very light discoloration would worry me.

[monoloco]

Here's a straight-on shot of back to show how far it intrudes into limb...

[monoloco]

You didn't say how wide the bow is at the knot, but I wouldn't worry to much about it.  the thickness there will keep it from bending too much and chrysaling.  One of my favorite bows has a very similar knot and the only issue is that it shortens the working limb.

I am concerned about the scorching on the back toward the upper tip; it looks pretty severe.  Anything above a very light discoloration would worry me.

1-1/2" wide at the parallels.
I'm actually down to the thin ring right above the first fattie.  So in theory, I could still chase the next ring?
This was a key lesson for a noob:  apply heat from belly side...  Doh!

[Pat B]

If that scorch is on the back I'd be concerned. Can you go down another ring to eliminate the scorch? Generally knots on the belly are of little concern although being right on the be a concern. You could put a temporary wrap below and above the knot, finish tillering the bow then remove the wraps and even out the thickness there leaving it a little proud. I think at that point I'd add another permanent wrap above and below the knot before adding the finish.

[monoloco]

I’ll admit I was more worried about the knot than the scorch.  Still absorbing info...
Will admit to being giddy about tillering finally, but I reckon I should remove the scorched ring and let the fat ring rule.

Thanks y’all for chiming in.  Waiting for some comments so I can dive in...

[bentstick54]

Yes everything I’ve been been told or read is do not heat the back of the bow. The heat hardens the wood cells which is bad for the tension wood on the back of the bow. Heat should be applied to the belly or compression side. I would carefully go down a ring if you have the thickness to do so.

[monoloco]

Thanks.  I've resigned myself to removing the last remaining skinny ring above the 'good' ring.

I really did make every mistake possible on this one, but learned a lot in the process.  I had not considered what side I'd heat and since straight line was drawn on back, I set that in my straightening jig facing up.  I also didn't have a feel for time, distance, movement etc. of the heat gun  and when it cooked it did it quickly!  I got some slight discoloration on other locations but nothing near the scorched area.  The stave required several corrections and turned out to be a great place to learn/practice.

I will say, that I have a newfound respect and love for Osage.  Tough and ornery yet compliant and cooperative at the same time.  Already thinking about my next bow :-))

[bownarra]

Never apply dry heat to the back like that It will fail there. If it changed colour fast then the gun was too close, you are aiming for the heat to soak in slowly. It should be held around 4 - 5 inches from the wood and take at least a few minutes to change the colour as much as in your photos. Certainly chase another ring for the back.

[bjrogg]

Never apply dry heat to the back like that It will fail there. If it changed colour fast then the gun was too close, you are aiming for the heat to soak in slowly. It should be held around 4 - 5 inches from the wood and take at least a few minutes to change the colour as much as in your photos. Certainly chase another ring for the back.

I agree. Chase another ring. Heat is good for compression at least in some woods. Terrible in tension for all woods. I broke my first bow not knowing that.

Not meaning to be cruel. But I don’t think you made every mistake yet.lol Just keep at it and learn as you go. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. There’s still an amazing amount of mistakes to be discovered.

When you get a shooter it will all be worth it

Bjrogg

[monoloco]

I fooled with it last night.  I started to scrape at handle, and realized the ‘thin’ top ring is actually not insignificant.  So I chickened out... my concern being that I’ve already started tillering and that ring is not an insignificant proportion of remaining limb thickness?  So my fear was that it would significantly affect bow tiller/weight?  At the tips, that ring may currently be 10-20% of thickness (need to go out and measure...).  If thickness is exponential (8x) it would matter. 
I’m also going to pull it to 50lb and estimate where it would be in terms of draw length currently, in order to decide whether it’s to late to do that much thinning?

I scraped VERY lightly at the worst of the scorch to see how deep the discoloration was, and it doesn’t seem to go very deep.  That may not matter of course...

On one level I’m tempted to just leave as is and see what happens...

Thanks again all... and happy new year!

[bassman]

Chase a new ring, and if it comes in light sinew back it. You will learn another aspect of bow building, and you will have a safe bow to shoot for years to come.Just my thoughts.

[bjrogg]

I agree chase a ring. Last picture on tree I believe you said 50 lbs and still not even to brace height. Im pretty sure you’ll have enough wood left for any weight you want. That will be another learning experience in itself trying to hit that draw weight and length.

Bjrogg

[monoloco]

Ok.  Here's what I have:
First pic shows what's prob near tips.  Removing current top ring seems like a lot...
Next pic shows tiller at 53#.  Long way to go I reckon, which is good in this case.  Note stave has approx 3" reflex to start (both tips).
Last pic just shows that removing top ring will expose knot(s).

At risk of sounding like an ungrateful hard-headed noob that doesn't appreciate good advice from those who know infinitely more, I'm really hesitant to take another ring off.  Am I crazy for thinking I should go with it as-is and risk it exploding?

Or I reckon I just resign myself to a 30# bow and hope I don't violate the ring removal, cuz then it's game-over.

FWIW, the scorching I think, may not be as bad as it looks.  I was indeed several inches away and moving constantly, but at the last minute I focused on exactly where I wanted the tip to really move and it darkened quickly.  I was using oil, and when scraping it last night, it lightened up a fair bit (tho not totally of course).  Of course I understand that ANY scorching is really unacceptable as it signifies high temp was reached at surface...  I got that.  Honest:  won't do it again :-}

Sorry for beating a dead horse...

[Yooper Bowyer]

You might be able to get away with the ring you have if you scrape down the scorched part and put a really strong backing on it, but it's better to end up with a light bow instead of a broken bow; osage is not cheap. 

I wouldn't worry to much about taking another ring off.  It would be quite difficult to violate the thick ring below it.  Just go slow and take as much time as you need.  If the bow is long enough you could pike it if need be.