Main Discussion Area > Flight Bows
Virtual Mass revisited
sleek:
--- Quote from: DC on September 27, 2020, 11:25:17 am ---Didn't we decide that you can't get part of a limb to bend first? More or less, yes but not first or last. If you take any snape limb and move the tip 1/4" the inner part of the limb will move, maybe not much but it will move. Like the Parsons carriage. ;D
--- End quote ---
I haven't abandoned the thought because I simply haven't fount a convincing reason to doubt it. Perhaps instead if saying "bending first" if i were to say, bending faster in terms of release, that could get you closer to my side of the fence? If an arrow relieving a stiff kick in the rear by way of string release will cause the arrow to flex, setting up a wave, then the same logic should apply to the bows limbs. When the arrow is shot, the nock moves either first or faster than the point, i cant say which, causing the arrow to bend until the tip catches up in speed with the nock. I feel strongly this same principle can me made to apply to a bows limbs and do my best to tiller with that in mind.
Id love to be prove wrong, because if so, that means I became more knowledgeable than I am right now as I sit thinking over a bowl of oatmeal. But as I currently sit, I just can't convince myself that it doesn't work that way. This may just continue to be a case where you and I must agree to disagree, and thats ok. Id like to get acess to a super slow mo camera as mentioned to prove this theory, which at this point, is all it is.
sleek:
--- Quote from: scp on September 27, 2020, 11:18:42 am ---I'm reading the words, but not quite grasping what they are referring to.
Badger: I have always suspected that a tiller where the limb bent progressively from outer to inner could also help to control this vibration by simply returning to brace over a more extended period.
Sleek: So I tiller the working limb closer to the tips to bend first as I draw it the bow, and the inner limb to bend last. The inner limb is last to bend on draw but first to release its energy upon string release. This flows like a wave all the way to the tips allowing the most energy efficient delivery of energy possible.
To me, they appear to be saying the opposites. Am I wrong?
--- End quote ---
No, he and I are in agreement on the points you are confused about. We just look at it from different ends of the bow for a reference point. His thoughts start from tips to inner limb, mine start from inner limb to tips. Either way, its the progression of energy transfer thats key. Steve, if I misrepresented/understand what you are saying please correct me.
bownarra:
Right DC. At least on any bow where the string doesn't touch the belly at brace.
The only design I know of to act differently is the Duoflex. Of course this is because the string is sat on the belly of a significant proportion of the limb at brace and this changes as the bow is drawn.
These different limb profiles only work when tied into width taper. Tiller shape is dictated by width profile.
For a straight limb bow eg non recurve the way to the minimum limb distorsion losses is to concentrate the bend in the inner limbs, stiff, narrowed past pyramid taper outer limbs. Tillered like Willies last tiller picture. This tiller gives the longest return path for the tips.
DC:
--- Quote from: sleek on September 27, 2020, 12:20:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: DC on September 27, 2020, 11:25:17 am ---Didn't we decide that you can't get part of a limb to bend first? More or less, yes but not first or last. If you take any snape limb and move the tip 1/4" the inner part of the limb will move, maybe not much but it will move. Like the Parsons carriage. ;D
--- End quote ---
I haven't abandoned the thought because I simply haven't fount a convincing reason to doubt it. Perhaps instead if saying "bending first" if i were to say, bending faster in terms of release, that could get you closer to my side of the fence? If an arrow relieving a stiff kick in the rear by way of string release will cause the arrow to flex, setting up a wave, then the same logic should apply to the bows limbs. When the arrow is shot, the nock moves either first or faster than the point, i cant say which, causing the arrow to bend until the tip catches up in speed with the nock. I feel strongly this same principle can me made to apply to a bows limbs and do my best to tiller with that in mind.
Id love to be prove wrong, because if so, that means I became more knowledgeable than I am right now as I sit thinking over a bowl of oatmeal. But as I currently sit, I just can't convince myself that it doesn't work that way. This may just continue to be a case where you and I must agree to disagree, and thats ok. Id like to get acess to a super slow mo camera as mentioned to prove this theory, which at this point, is all it is.
--- End quote ---
I like the arrow analogy but I still don't think the nock moves first, slower, yes but not first. Anyway That's getting to be semantics.
So the bow is held bent by the string, so the "pressure" is released at the tip. I can see a wave being propagated down the limb. I have to think about what happens next :)
DC:
--- Quote from: bownarra on September 27, 2020, 12:46:15 pm ---Right DC. At least on any bow where the string doesn't touch the belly at brace.
The only design I know of to act differently is the Duoflex. Of course this is because the string is sat on the belly of a significant proportion of the limb at brace and this changes as the bow is drawn.
These different limb profiles only work when tied into width taper. Tiller shape is dictated by width profile.
For a straight limb bow eg non recurve the way to the minimum limb distorsion losses is to concentrate the bend in the inner limbs, stiff, narrowed past pyramid taper outer limbs. Tillered like Willies last tiller picture. This tiller gives the longest return path for the tips.
--- End quote ---
Oh yeah, I'll add that to my thought list.
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