Bow tips, stiff, flipped, recurved or other

[darinputman]

I have experimented a little with tip designs. I have discovered that I really don't like big full recurves as it seems to take up too much limb and didn't notice any real benefits to my bow. I have thought about adding length and seeing how that worked out.  I do like the short little tight bend recurve, seems to shoot well and get to keep my working limb length. But it also seems that I really get no more benefit than just leaving a few extra inches of stiffness at the limb tips. I normally just leave the last 6 inches a little stiffer. But by leaving a few more inches stiff it does increase speed by a bit. My bows in question are hickory and osage 66-68" t/t for a 28" draw and 1 3/8 inch at the fades tapered  to 1 1/4 inch 8 inches from the tips. From there tapered to 3/8 to 7/16 inch tips. I also like just a slightly flipped tip, seems to shoot well. Any input as to your likes or dislikes and why would be appreciated.

[DC]

Are you using a chrono to check the speed?
Any time I've added length, usually in an attempt to control set, I lose speed. I think the extra limb mass kills it.
Recurves "always" seem to help my bows and the more reflex the better up to the point where set starts to trump everything.
I'm heading out to the shop in a minute to test a recurved bow that I had to pike an inch off each end. It had 90+° recurves and now it will be a bit shorter and have a little les than 90°. I had to put horn tips on it so tip weight may enter into it.
Just have to finish my coffee and cut the nocks in and maybe make a new string if I can't find one.

[gutpile]

I only build static recurves when doing recurves on self bows.. no more than 6 inches even on short bows.. 60" under... I draw 26.. but I feel a flip tip thats static is just as good..can have a few inches more of working limb and speed is close if not same..never chrono'd however... plus they just give the bow a mean profile... gut

[PatM]

I like sharper angles or hooks of medium length that require a belly groove or bridge.

[DC]

OK that was interesting. Before I piked it, if I remember right, it was 38#@28 and shot 193fps@10gpp. You can see the old outline in the pic. Now it's 41#@28 and shot 195@10gpp.
There's a couple of things that could be going on. My test arrow tips are only within 3-4 grains of accuracy and I may have been looking at the tree scale slightly off when I checked the draw weight. Even though I put horn tips on this time and it originally had pin nocks I may have lost some tip weight when I piked it. Also in the before with the recurves going past 90° the string may not have been lifting off and I may have been packing a little extra weight. All that said I did gain 2 fps and that pleases me. I also still have a little filing to do on the tips so they'll get a little lighter. And I forgot to weigh this string. It's just an old one off the nail it may be a bit heavy.
So this seems to support your findings that big hooks may not be much better if at all.

Oops forgot the pic

[DC]

I only build static recurves when doing recurves on self bows.. no more than 6 inches even on short bows.. 60" under... I draw 26.. but I feel a flip tip thats static is just as good..can have a few inches more of working limb and speed is close if not same..never chrono'd however... plus they just give the bow a mean profile... gut

Gut, when you say no more than 6" are you meaning 6" of reflex or that you used 6" of limb to make the recurve. Or something completely different

[bownarra]

Best speed for me are from holmguaard/molly style or recurves just like DC showed in that last pic haha. Combine those recurves with a r/d profile....and you can get some very good numbers ,again, as DC shows above.
Remember that recuves are essentially levers on the end of your limb. You want all the leverage possible eg tight as poss but over as short a length of limb as possible. With no 'dead weight' in the recurve being essential for max performance.

[darinputman]

Yes Dc I use a chrony decided I'd like to know how different changes affected speed. 190 fps is something I'd like to see someday.  My hat is off to you.       
    Gutpile I like the flip tips also.
     Patm I made a full length curve had to cut it down to what I call a medium length curve, but like theshort tighter curve best. Of course a lot of that can probably be improved on as experience with design and skills improve.
    Bownarra never done a Molle style or even seen one in person but agree with the lever concept.

[gutpile]

6" of limb to make recurve.. at my draw (26) and only 60" have a few at 58" and even one at 55" 54lb at 26 but on that one no curves and fades are only 1 3/8.. snakey osage.. killed a 143 6/8 8 point with that bugger air backed too... My form is really too big Ive found.. not necessary to use that much of my already short working limb.. so on the 58 I cut an inch off both ends...gut

[DC]

I think the only bow I've made that was less than 60" was for my 7 year old grandson. This last one was 68" so it will be 66" now. That's measured around the curve. This one has a good portion of the bend in the inners, kind of Molle like. That may account for the performance. I've only tried a couple of Molles and they were good but not great. Mid 180's I think. I think my problem with Molles is is having the guts to make the levers thin/narrow enough. I've roughly measured the volume/weight of the levers compared with a straight bow and the straight bow has been lighter but not by much. Having that big lump of the second fade is tough to get around. Also once I get the levers down to 1/2" or so wide I start to pucker up real bad. Maybe some day.

[willie]

DC,

could you post a few more particulars about the bow you cut the tips down on?

selfbow or lam?  materiels used? limb width profile and r/d profile if any?

thanks

[DC]

Just putting some spit and polish on it. Patience grasshopper

[DC]

Boo backed Yew RD. Limbs are 1 1/8" tapering to 1/2" at the base of the recurve

[willie]

I have experimented a little with tip designs........ My bows in question are hickory and osage 66-68" t/t for a 28" draw and 1 3/8 inch at the fades tapered  to 1 1/4 inch 8 inches from the tips. From there tapered to 3/8 to 7/16 inch tips. I also like just a slightly flipped tip, seems to shoot well.

Boo backed Yew RD. Limbs are 1 1/8" tapering to 1/2" at the base of the recurve

Don, I see that bow turned out fast.  Do you think your limb profile design you are getting good results with in a BBY can be utilized just as well in a self bow? Would you try it without the backing?

[willie]

I have thought about adding length and seeing how that worked out.  I do like the short little tight bend recurve, seems to shoot well and get to keep my working limb length. But it also seems that I really get no more benefit than just leaving a few extra inches of stiffness at the limb tips.

Best speed for me are from holmguaard/molly style or........ Remember that recuves are essentially levers on the end of your limb.

Lots of guys like the idea of a reflex that gets tighter towards the tip, but I see some trends towards just the opposite, here is an example for use with a different backing, so maybe not so much deflex or reflex would be in order for a selfbow.  I am posting the pic primarily to generate comments about the "flatter towards the tips" idea.