Hemp Linen Backed Hickory with Skins (new tiller on pg 2)

[M2A]

Nothing looks finer than hickory with those many colors of the hart wood. Really like how you dressed up that handle!
Mike

[Stickhead]

Well, thanks for the kind comments and helpful advice, guys.  The good news is, I’ve got plenty more hickory to practice on.

[TimBo]

Nice cabin, but where are the staves?   

Oh, and nice bow!  I agree with the lower limb comments, but if it shoots well, I don't blame you for leaving it.

[artcher1]

Odd that you had two hickory bows break on the tillering tree. Did their backs collapse and fold or did they splinter and fly apart. Hickory is used for backing so growth rings violations isn't a concern. But again, there's good hickory and bad hickory. Mostly depends on how it was cared for after harvesting.

If I know I have some good hickory to work with I generally rasp the back smooth or flatten and start my bows from that point. I even concaved the back and slightly radiused the belly on of my finest hickory bows. So I know you can do a lot with good hickory. Curious to know how you cared for your wood after being cut?

Your bow looks really nice, but that weaker lower limb will only get worse as others have mentioned...…..Art

[Stickhead]

Odd that you had two hickory bows break on the tillering tree. Did their backs collapse and fold or did they splinter and fly apart. Hickory is used for backing so growth rings violations isn't a concern. But again, there's good hickory and bad hickory. Mostly depends on how it was cared for after harvesting.

If I know I have some good hickory to work with I generally rasp the back smooth or flatten and start my bows from that point. I even concaved the back and slightly radiused the belly on of my finest hickory bows. So I know you can do a lot with good hickory. Curious to know how you cared for your wood after being cut?

Your bow looks really nice, but that weaker lower limb will only get worse as others have mentioned...…..Art

Art,

I'm glad you asked.  Maybe I'll get some consensus on the subject.  Below are the two that blew.  In both cases, I roughed them out after only about 3 months drying, and accelerated the drying by letting them bake in my hot attic until they quit dropping weight.  I don't know if this was the reason for the failures or not.  In the meantime, the other staves have been stacked in my workshop (not usually temperature controlled), sealed and sprayed with borax to keep the bugs away.  I live in Virginia, where it's humid in the summer, and drier in the winter.  I didn't heat treat them per se, but I used dry heat to bend them on a caul.  I just used the outermost ring as the back, without rasping or anything.

Both broke in straight lines across the back, down to about 1/4".  The rawhide-backed one actually blew in 3 places simultaneously, in the same manor.  (See the 2 circled spots on the limb where it cracked but didn't break the rawhide.)

As you can see from the end-on pic of the broken off limb, the outer several rings are extremely porous - so much that you can actually see the holes that run through it.  I believe this is why it's so weak there.

[artcher1]

I live next door in WV so I understand the weather extremes you're dealing with. Funny you should mention the fact that you stored your staves in the attic. I've been teaching a friend my bow making method, and I was really concerned that the hickory we were working with had also been stored in his attic all last summer. He had made one attempt at a bow on his own but it fretted on him. So he dropped off a hickory stave and I preformed a bend/break test on it. Test piece took a great bend before collapsing, indicating it was solid for bow making. His bow turned out great from that stave and he's been shooting it in for over month now.

Those breaks are not indicative of good hickory. Good hickory will collapse and fold and not shatter like your bows. First guess is that your staves were super dry to begin with. With your staves being dry to begin with, and add in this really low humidity we're experiencing, may have contributed to your bows breaking. That's if you didn't leave your wood laying around outside on the ground for a while before storing in your attic......Art

[jeffp51]

I had an elm bow do the same thing--I think for the same reason.  It looks like the cambium is still on at least one of those staves, and when it gave out on me, it took the rest of the limb with it.  When I scraped that stuff off,  the bow held up.  It is weird that the break seems to go straight down for  1/4 inch, though.  I assume that is why you went below that level for the third attempt.  is the second one rawhide backed? It doesn't seem to have mattered.  How many arrows do you have through the successful bow?

[Santanasaur]

I’ve cut a lot of hickory like this that’s all crunchy earlywood  for the first half inch or so. After chasing rings the wood usually gets much better. Every time it’s happened I’ve gotten the tree from a swamp. Dunno if the problem is the water or the type of hickory that grows there. I believe most of these were shagbark but i’ve seen it happen with shell bark too. These are the only times i’ve broken hickory in tension, and the breaks looked just like yours. That strip of broken back you’re holding in the last pic has so much air in it, looks just like what I’ve seen. Those growth rings are barely bigger than the pores.

Bow looks awesome btw. Love those rattlers on the handle stitch.

[artcher1]

Only hickory bow that I've had to blow like that was a shell bark hickory. A friend had gifted it to me. I was shooting the bow in when let go! Kinda of gun shy on shell bark hickory now. Problem could have been how it was cared for after being cut. Don't know.....Art

[Stickhead]

I had an elm bow do the same thing--I think for the same reason.  It looks like the cambium is still on at least one of those staves, and when it gave out on me, it took the rest of the limb with it.  When I scraped that stuff off,  the bow held up.  It is weird that the break seems to go straight down for  1/4 inch, though.  I assume that is why you went below that level for the third attempt.  is the second one rawhide backed? It doesn't seem to have mattered.  How many arrows do you have through the successful bow?

Jeff - yes, the 2nd one was rawhide backed.  I’ve had a few dozen arrows through the survivor so far.  I’ll let you know if it doesn’t hold up.  The wood is definitely better below about 1/4”.

[Stickhead]

Well, I decided I could spare a few more pounds, so I revisited the tiller slightly.  I got the top limb bending a little more, and spread out the bend on the bottom just a bit.  It's 50# @ 28" now, and I don't really want to drop any more.  Does this look any better?

[Pat B]

It's almost impossible to to break good hickory. It usually can bend drastically and still not break. Breaking across grain like yours did tells me it was infected by fungi. I also doubt that seasoning it in the attic would adversely affect it. Hickory preforms best at lower M/C(5% to 6%) so it's hard to get it too dry in ,most areas.
 Your tiller looks better but you could still get more bending right under the handle on the lower limb but stay away from the bend that is already there.

[Bubbabowyer]

Beautiful bow. As long as set isn't a problem I wouldn't change a thing.

[JohnL]

Hey Stick,

     That stave is full of bug bites.  One of which is clearly visible in the 7th pic down, of the tip.  That dark spot along the edge, just under the ring that is your back, is a bug bite running across the stave, and the thin dark line extending from it on either side, is the tree's reaction to  the damage.  I saw alot of dark figuring in the the rings of the handle/fade area of the belly, which is also likely the result of bug damage.
When the bugs tunnel between the summer wood rings, it can cause the stave to de-lam between the rings; and it weakens the wood and makes it act more brash & brittle.
There is no good reason in the world to ever have to back a hickory bow–even with violations, so it makes me think you might've missed some subtle bug damage in your earlier attempts that failed.

–John