STRUGGLING NOOB RING CHASE

[Gregoryv]

Hello everyone.  So another dumb ring question on Osage.  I am having a hell of a time with getting this stave to one backing ring, and wish I had someone that could just show me.  Here goes.  This is what i was trying to do:
Remove sapwood.  Use knife until I hit crunchy early wood layer.  Expose that layer along stave.  Then scrape that layer.  Problem:  that layer is nice and pronounced in some spots along the stave.  Some spots it seems to disappear, and in those spots I violate the underplaying ring.  Should I let this stave season?  Any advice as per always is very appreciated.
Greg

[bradsmith2010]

 sometimes the ring will vary in thickness making it difficult,, just keep trying,
Im pretty good at it,, been doing it about 30 years,,,, but sometimes I hit a stave that almost seems impossible,, I just slow down and do the best I can,,
   keep in mind,, if you are pretty close,, and only have a bit of violation,, a rawhide back can make it a shooter,, so there is hope,,
    I am working on one now, the rings were so thin I have a spot I dont like,, so I am gonna rawhide back a proceed,,,,, you need to know how to do that anyway,,
    also some close ups of where your at,, would help

[SLIMBOB]

Brad mentioned the other day that greenish Osage will not work as easily as dry, seasoned Osage. I agree. However, I can’t wrap my head around what you are describing here. Once you hit the early wood above your back ring, it’s butter. You should not be getting any tear outs at all, as you should be shaving it off, like shaving the hair off your chin. Light pressure with the razor (drawknife or scraper) is all that’s necessary. Too much force and you cut yourself (cut into your back ring). The analogy is fitting as the two acts are very similar. Shave the early wood with very light strokes with the knife blade edge held at 90 degrees to the back. No way you will end up with a tear out. No way at all. You can work the entire hard wood ring above your back ring in this manner and never get a tear out. Too much pressure may cut more deeply than need, and you need to slow down around any knots. But no tear outs doing this.
  Is what I described what you are doing?

[bentstick54]

I’m not an expert by any means, but when I get to the crunchy early wood, I turn my draw knife to 90degrees, and use it like a scraper, or go to a cabinet scraper.

[Deerhunter21]

sometimes the ring will vary in thickness making it difficult,, just keep trying,
Im pretty good at it,, been doing it about 30 years,,,, but sometimes I hit a stave that almost seems impossible,, I just slow down and do the best I can,,
   keep in mind,, if you are pretty close,, and only have a bit of violation,, a rawhide back can make it a shooter,, so there is hope,,
    I am working on one now, the rings were so thin I have a spot I dont like,, so I am gonna rawhide back a proceed,,,,, you need to know how to do that anyway,,
    also some close ups of where your at,, would help

+1! a couple violations = rawhide backing + decorations over rawhide (snakeskins, feathers, paint (see northearts bows!  )) = sexy lookin bow!

[Gregoryv]

Ok I think maybe people have become confused with my post.  So please correct me if I am wrong.  I have been told to get DOWN to early wood.  This is what I am having trouble with.  So I have been under the assumption that I should be using the early wood as a gap to draw knife the above ring off.  In the process of removing the above ring I am getting tear outs.  If I was down to all early wood I would not be asking for help.  I would be done.  I could scrub it off if I wanted to.

[Gregoryv]

Also what I was trying to say was that the layer of crunchy early wood that I am using as a gauge to find my backing ring at times seems to disappear.  Like it’s not in some spots, and I end up going too far down looking for it.  I can’t seem to see a contrast between late wood rings without it.

[bjrogg]

greg I don't know if this helps. But I like to remove the rings above until I'm one above the one I want. I do this in stages as I work from one end to the other. Then very careful remove that one getting to the crunchy early wood. Then I scrape the early wood off exposing the ring I want for my back. I do this in sections as I make my way from end to end. I don't move to another section till I have my ring cleaned up and know where I am.
Bjrogg

[SLIMBOB]

Again, use the drawknife as a scraper. I use the knife bevel up for removing bark, sap wood and non useable rings in bulk. Once I am close to where I want to be, I turn the knife bevel down, stand it up in a less aggressive posture (90 degrees) and scrape away the rest. No tear outs aside from the occasional one around troublesome knots. Your being to aggressive (angle of the knife) with the knife. Use the knife very little at 150 degrees, and much more at 90 or even 80 degrees with a good burr.

[Gregoryv]

I’m starting to wonder if my draw knife is causing the tear outs, if the vice I have it in is causing them somehow, or if it’s just a bad piece of wood.  I get about 3/4 the way done and when I go to remove part of the ring that is over my back at that time, and instead of coming off clean it just gauges the backing ring.  It’s like if you were to cut thru a small pin knot.  It almost looks like some cases that there was a void under the ring I am removing like a pre-existing gauge even tho I know that’s not possible.  This was my first attempt.  I am coating it and taking a nap!  Thank you all very much for your advise. I hope I can get this eventually.

[Gregoryv]

“Wood Damage Because the wood fibers are, in effect, softened with the additional moisture, tools are more likely to tear or rip the wood instead of cut it. Tear-out, checking, and gouging is more likely on high MC lumber. Even sanding can tear up the surface, rather than smooth it when the wood's MC level is high.“
Maybe I should wait... 

[SLIMBOB]

If in fact it’s that wet...meaning it’s green...you should let it dry a bunch.

[Gregoryv]

Cut two months ago.  What constitutes green?

[Gregoryv]

I about shaved half of it off lol.  Once I get aggravated I need to quit anyways.  Maybe next month.

[SLIMBOB]

That’s green. Give it a year or 2.