Q: Set and stringfollow

[backtowood B2W]

I'm confused again
Set is the permanent damage caused by crushed wood cells.
Stringfollow is the bent which returns after being unstrung OR is it the amount of how much the tips are behind the handle.
What do you think about a sticky where all this bowyers terms are explained, so we all talk about the same language. For example: It makes a difference if you measure dl to the back or to the belly, or length, is it ttt or ntn..., when are we talking about a recurve...there are many terms which seems everybody interprets a bit different. Which is ok as long as no bow get harmed. I remember the thread of Dels flightbow which got overdrawn by measuring before the comp.
Hope I didn't wake up a sleeping dog...
Thanks for clearing!
B2W

[simk]

 

[lonbow]

In my opinion set refers to a deformation caused by the destruction of wood cells. String follow refers to the general amount of deflex that a bow has, no matter if it comes from the natural growth of the stave, from set or from both of them. A synonym for string follow might be deflex.

Here are three examples for clarification:

Lets say a bow is made out of a stave with 2" of reflex and keeps 1" of reflex after beeing finished. This bow has 1" of set, but no string follow.

Then there is an other bow made out of a streight stave and that has 1" of set. The set and the string follow are both 1".

A third bow is made out of a stave with 1" of deflex and it has 1" set. The stringfollow of this bow is 2".

Only the bowmaker himself can tell, how much set a bow has. Only he knows the amount of reflex or deflex that the bowstave had.

lonbow

[Dances with squirrels]

I did a Bowyer's Glossary for The Bowyer's Journal magazine years ago and tried to take into account comprehensive, conventional and historical meanings of the terms. I don't have a problem with it being posted here if it would be helpful.

Set - The result, generally due to belly compression/compaction, of a bow’s inability to return to its original shape. For instance, if a bow was constructed from a bow stave with 3” of reflex and after tillering, shooting in, and unstringing, the bow then shows 1” of reflex, the bow is said to have taken 2” of set.

String follow - When an unstrung bow's side profile shows its limbs bent toward the string side so that the tips are behind the front of the handle, they are said to have string follow, or follow the string.

[backtowood B2W]

Thanks guys that's clear now!
So the amount of set which disappears after some time does not have a term. I thought it is a not unimportant factor, how much it differs from being unstrung - to the shape before bracing, and how long it takes to get back to this shape. I'm wondering if it's better to have less as possible or if it shows up it's a indicator that the wood is close to its limits...

[PatM]

At the end of the day, the bow is what it is.  All that matters is how it shoots.  Agonizing over the nomenclature of its features is a huge waste of time.

[backtowood B2W]

I did a Bowyer's Glossary for The Bowyer's Journal magazine years ago and tried to take into account comprehensive, conventional and historical meanings of the terms. I don't have a problem with it being posted here if it would be helpful.
I would really like to have it here on PA, but you can also pm them to me! I would really appreciate it.

[Del the cat]

IMO, it's simple... hold my beer...
Set is the permanent deformation, whereas string follow recovers over night (or after a few hours of unstringing the bow)
If sting follow didn't recover then how would you distinguish between it and set?
Of course one can argue for ever about how much set there is and when it actually occurred ... during the making, the shooting in or over 2000 arrows... but the point is, it's fixed.
String follow is interesting, 'cos you can actually plot a graph of how a bow recovers with time. I've measured a flight bow and watched it recover over an hour, two, three and still more over night.
Del

[SLIMBOB]

I don't often disagree with Del, but here I do, although the argument is over semantics for the most part.  Set cant be measured by anyone but the maker of the bow (or observers present from the beginning).  It is the amount of tip deflection set into the wood as compared to where the tips were before you ever stressed the wood.  This is  unbraced obviously.  You had to see and take measurements of this from the outset to ever know how much set was taken.   String follow is very simply how far behind the grip the tips are when unbraced.  Granted, there is often some recovery over time once a bow is unbraced.  I think this recovery is mostly irrelavant.  What is the tip position when you unstring the bow.  This is just how I define these things, and since there is no clearly defined arbiter of these things, it's all open for debate.

[paulc]

It does seem most every answer starts with “It depends,....”

🤨🙂

Paul

[Deerhunter21]

It does seem most every answer starts with “It depends,....”

🤨🙂

Paul

Too many different things that could happen that you just cant have one answer for all bows.

[Dances with squirrels]

Del, the term 'string follow' has evolved with changes in construction methods, materials, and time.

In the early 1900's, in American Archery, Dr. Robert Elmer described string follow as "An expression denoting the permanent set or curve that a bow takes on from being bent and drawn.", and again in Target Archery as "To become curved toward the belly from use."

More recently in The Traditional Bowyer's Bible it's described as, "Whereby set, design, or natural deflex in the stave, an unbraced bow's tips rest some distance bellyward of the back. Usually the result of set."

So today, it can, but doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with set, or recovery, but rather is a term used to describe a static view of the limbs' side profile.... like the term recurve. String follow bows are also made as composites... glass and wood lams. They're called that because the tips are behind the front of the handle. That's the way they were designed and glued up in the press. Set, or recovery after a rest period doesn't happen with them and is not a factor at all in their description. 'String follow' describes the end, not the means.

[Halfbow]

I did a Bowyer's Glossary for The Bowyer's Journal magazine years ago and tried to take into account comprehensive, conventional and historical meanings of the terms. I don't have a problem with it being posted here if it would be helpful.

Set - The result, generally due to belly compression/compaction, of a bow’s inability to return to its original shape. For instance, if a bow was constructed from a bow stave with 3” of reflex and after tillering, shooting in, and unstringing, the bow then shows 1” of reflex, the bow is said to have taken 2” of set.

String follow - When an unstrung bow's side profile shows its limbs bent toward the string side so that the tips are behind the front of the handle, they are said to have string follow, or follow the string.

+1

As the terms seem somewhat fuzzily defined, I think the bow making community is in a position to better define them. And I will put my weight behind Dances with Squirrels and Slimbob here. Seems like the most useful option.

Edit: And Lonbow

[backtowood B2W]

At the end of the day, the bow is what it is.  All that matters is how it shoots.  Agonizing over the nomenclature of its features is a huge waste of time.

I agree, but I try to list all my bows in a workshop book. For me, as a beginner, I want to have all features protocoled for comparison.
Especially when they aren't at home anymore...
B2W

[backtowood B2W]

I did a Bowyer's Glossary for The Bowyer's Journal magazine years ago and tried to take into account comprehensive, conventional and historical meanings of the terms. I don't have a problem with it being posted here if it would be helpful.

Set - The result, generally due to belly compression/compaction, of a bow’s inability to return to its original shape. For instance, if a bow was constructed from a bow stave with 3” of reflex and after tillering, shooting in, and unstringing, the bow then shows 1” of reflex, the bow is said to have taken 2” of set.

String follow - When an unstrung bow's side profile shows its limbs bent toward the string side so that the tips are behind the front of the handle, they are said to have string follow, or follow the string.

I will go along with this from now.
And I will also make a difference using the term SET:
Static set : permanent compression
Dynamic set : the set which returns overnight

Can someone give me some more clues about dynamic set? Is it hysteresis, or compressed wood cells able to expand when unstressed, or is it a matter of the early to late wood ratio ...
Thanks!!
B2W