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Author Topic: Red elm troubles  (Read 3143 times)

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Offline Mafort

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Red elm troubles
« on: November 06, 2019, 05:39:30 am »
Well I am having some trouble with one of the red elm staves I have. It’s twisted pretty good but the wood was pipe straight when I roughed out the bows profile and thinned it some. I’ve been trying for two days now to straighten this thing out with heat at the first day and then steam yesterday but it won’t budge. The bow is 72” long but the way the twist is I can’t cut it out of the stave itself. Maybe the limbs (which are about 3/4”) are a bit too thick to move? I’m steaming for about 20 minutes or so. Any advice?
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gutpile

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 07:27:09 am »
if this is green wood I wouldn't dry heat them, it can cause them to check.. at 3/4 thick you would need to steam for about an hour or at least 45 minutes..but IMO.. might be best to let the stave dry.. clamp it down to a board as straight as it will let you... after it dries you can then try to correct ... JM2C..gut
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bownarra

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 07:54:10 am »
I know its a bit late but when you cut fresh wood and want to dry it quickly you should split it into staves.
Figure out what sort of bow you want to make.
Cut it to length with say an extra few inches both ends.
Mark your centreline.
Reduce width to no less than 2 inches the full length. No narrowing for handle area or tips.
Then reduce thickness to a stiff floor tiller.
Put aside to dry further.
Once it is losing no more weight or weight reduction has slowed significantly reduce thickness some more and narrow the tips but to no less than 1 inch wide. Do not narrow the handle area.
Allow to dry further and keep an eye on weight loss. Only once it has stabilised can you safely reduce the width to the profile you want.
As a way of avoiding having to make heat corrections I also leave the handle area full width until first full brace. Once the bow is braced you can see exactly where the string wants to sit and then you simply shape the handle to the string :)

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Offline bushboy

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 07:54:29 am »
Maybe post a pic of the jig you are using.
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Offline Mafort

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 08:29:40 am »
Quote from: bownarra on November 06, 2019, 07:54:10 am
I know its a bit late but when you cut fresh wood and want to dry it quickly you should split it into staves.
Figure out what sort of bow you want to make.
Cut it to length with say an extra few inches both ends.
Mark your centreline.
Reduce width to no less than 2 inches the full length. No narrowing for handle area or tips.
Then reduce thickness to a stiff floor tiller.
Put aside to dry further.
Once it is losing no more weight or weight reduction has slowed significantly reduce thickness some more and narrow the tips but to no less than 1 inch wide. Do not narrow the handle area.
Allow to dry further and keep an eye on weight loss. Only once it has stabilised can you safely reduce the width to the profile you want.
As a way of avoiding having to make heat corrections I also leave the handle area full width until first full brace. Once the bow is braced you can see exactly where the string wants to sit and then you simply shape the handle to the string :)

Believe it or not this is actually what I did lol. Well except the narrowing of the width of the limbs.

This is a seasoned piece of elm. It’s been seasoned since March of this year. I though about maybe taking a file and removing some wood on the “strong side” of the bow limb and see if I can’t coax it to twist back. If I do it’s going to be one delicate operation.

As far as the jig... Mother Nature provided me with two very closely grown birch trees that form a “V” which I can use to twist, curve and all sorts of stuff. I’m not hoping for a super high weight. Something like 40lbs or so. Everything is still full width as of this moment.
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Offline PatM

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 08:33:28 am »
Elm  actually does not do very well when reduced to staves for quick drying.  Sounds like the wood didn't dry much since March.
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Offline IrishJay

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 08:36:19 am »
Is it prop twist or just general curvature?
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"The best camouflage pattern is called, 'Sit down and be quiet!' Your grandpa hunted deer in a red plaid coat, think about that for a second." - Fred Bear

Offline Mafort

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 10:45:46 am »
Quote from: PatM on November 06, 2019, 08:33:28 am
Elm  actually does not do very well when reduced to staves for quick drying.  Sounds like the wood didn't dry much since March.

Moisture content was at 9% before I started steaming yesterday. It’s in a space in my garage that stays at about 85+/- degrees year round. Put a dehumidifier in there also.

Quote from: IrishJay on November 06, 2019, 08:36:19 am
Is it prop twist or just general curvature?

It’s a prop twist but it’s only on the last 6-7 inches of wood on either limb. I just don’t wanna cut it unless I’m like 100% certain I have to.
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Offline IrishJay

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 10:52:13 am »
Jawge gave me a really good trick for prop twist. Clamp one limb down to where it can't move and the stave is horizontal. Clamp a long crescent wrench to the free limb. Hang a bucket or jug from the wrench. Heat the limb, slowly adding water to your bucket/jug. Keep heating and adding water until the stave twists a little past straight. Leave it hang like that until the wood cools back down to room temp.
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"The best camouflage pattern is called, 'Sit down and be quiet!' Your grandpa hunted deer in a red plaid coat, think about that for a second." - Fred Bear

Offline Mafort

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2019, 10:55:51 am »
Quote from: IrishJay on November 06, 2019, 10:52:13 am
Jawge gave me a really good trick for prop twist. Clamp one limb down to where it can't move and the stave is horizontal. Clamp a long crescent wrench to the free limb. Hang a bucket or jug from the wrench. Heat the limb, slowly adding water to your bucket/jug. Keep heating and adding water until the stave twists a little past straight. Leave it hang like that until the wood cools back down to room temp.

That’s a good idea. I’ll try it this weekend and let ya know.
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Offline IrishJay

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2019, 11:39:49 am »
Jawge has a website where he details that and some other tricks. I don't have the link handy, but I'm sure somebody around here does.
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"The best camouflage pattern is called, 'Sit down and be quiet!' Your grandpa hunted deer in a red plaid coat, think about that for a second." - Fred Bear

Offline PatM

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2019, 11:50:46 am »
You weren't really clear on when you roughed it out.  It definitely can be straightened.  Elm is not a stubborn wood to manipulate with steam.
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Offline IrishJay

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 12:03:25 pm »
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"The best camouflage pattern is called, 'Sit down and be quiet!' Your grandpa hunted deer in a red plaid coat, think about that for a second." - Fred Bear

Offline Mafort

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 01:51:08 pm »
You are 100% correct patm sorry about that. And thanks for the link Irish. I will definitely be trying that.
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Black Moshannon

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Re: Red elm troubles
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2019, 02:46:57 pm »
I’ve used red elm for D bows, it’s all I bother  working with now. I usually find that after sizing the stave down to 3/4 inch thick by two inches wide and then drying it, it’ll take a lateral warp. My last bow I fixed by cutting it down to straight dimensions. A couple bows before I used dry heat plus lard rubbed into the dry wood. I then placed the stave in a simple press made with a board with two 1 inch pieces nailed on either end, then C-clamped where I wanted to bend the wood. I had to move the wood from the heat to the board and quickly get the clamp on. It worked really well both times.
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