Heat-treating in the old way?

[Pat B]

As modern man it's hard to imagine how primitive man dealt with their day to day situations and we can only imagine. Also, working with stone tools you almost have to be working with green wood. The way I see it is the bow was shaped  green and dries as tillering progressed. Staves were possible greased and placed near the smoke hole or at least the ceiling in their shelters while not being worked on. The combo of grease, creasote from the smoke and the heat cured and dried the wood as it was being built. Also, using stone tools would almost assuredly meant saplings were the wood used and not full sized trees unless parts of a lightning struct tree were used. But these situations were only heat curing methods and not tempering. I don't doubt that some early archers would have tempered their bows but I don't think I've ever seen evidence of it.

[bassman]

We were not their ,so we will never know for sure.I would think that over time they may have went from heat curing to heat tempering even if by accident.That being said I have native books that show pics. of plains  bows,  with the natives holding them. One limb sticks out of the top of the bow sock, and shows quite a bit of set in many of the  examples I have seen.Maybe they tempered the wood ,and bent it around a tree to get the shape back, and the bow,s power back.

[JW_Halverson]

I have heard numerous sources that stone tools were knapped by dripping boiling water from an eagle feather to pop off flakes. Utter B.S.

Just like a lot of supposedly handed down information about bow building, I think a whole heck of a lot of it is pure crap from people that have never made a bow.  And when someone comes up with yet another claim that their technique is exactly the way it was done way back when, I go to the cupboard for the big salt canister. Until I see an unbroken chain of evidence connecting the past with current times, I have to be skeptical.

Same goes for "revolutionary" breakthroughs making everything else obsolete.  In those cases I go to the feed store to buy a stack of salt blocks.

Combine the two together and I am stepping back, simply because I cannot afford to swing the mortgage payments on a former Soviet salt mine in Siberia.

If these claims by Shannon are as good as the hyperbole describes, I would like to see 5 similar whitewood bows left in the rain for 48 hours and then all shoot fairly close to 200 fps with 10 gpp arrows.

[sleek]

I have heard numerous sources that stone tools were knapped by dripping boiling water from an eagle feather to pop off flakes. Utter B.S.

Just like a lot of supposedly handed down information about bow building, I think a whole heck of a lot of it is pure crap from people that have never made a bow.  And when someone comes up with yet another claim that their technique is exactly the way it was done way back when, I go to the cupboard for the big salt canister. Until I see an unbroken chain of evidence connecting the past with current times, I have to be skeptical.

Same goes for "revolutionary" breakthroughs making everything else obsolete.  In those cases I go to the feed store to buy a stack of salt blocks.

Combine the two together and I am stepping back, simply because I cannot afford to swing the mortgage payments on a former Soviet salt mine in Siberia.

If these claims by Shannon are as good as the hyperbole describes, I would like to see 5 similar whitewood bows left in the rain for 48 hours and then all shoot fairly close to 200 fps with 10 gpp arrows.

I honestly am considering buying a few bows from him just to try out. I mean, honestly, they do look nice... and sweet gum had my interest just because. I'd also get an elm bow from them as it's my favorite bow wood, and of course  an osage bow.

[DC]

I think advertising would advance a lot if they would quit using words like, "amazing" "fantastic" etc. I'm with you JW. I hear those words and I'm gone. I've gotten stung a few times at exhibitions and fairs by fast talking salesmen. It only took a half dozen times and I caught on. Still haven't figured out how that guy can weld a beer can but I still have the amazing welding rod.

[sleek]

I think advertising would advance a lot if they would quit using words like, "amazing" "fantastic" etc. I'm with you JW. I hear those words and I'm gone. I've gotten stung a few times at exhibitions and fairs by fast talking salesmen. It only took a half dozen times and I caught on. Still haven't figured out how that guy can weld a beer can but I still have the amazing welding rod.

That beer can welder did look amazing.... Dont blame you for getting that one.

[Marc St Louis]

So far as I know all the museum pieces have noticeable set in the limbs and no visible evidence of heat-treating.  If it was practiced by even some natives then you would think it would be common practice to heat-treat their bows.  Also by some accounts when an outstanding bow was taken in war, or traded for in peace, then its value and impressiveness was talked about and probably even mimicked by others, don't see any evidence of heat-treated bows there either.

[bradsmith2010]

  I have a book at home forgot the name,, it talks about putting sand between layers of sinew on a bow,, sometimes I just think they make that stuff up,
Ok I hate to admit this,, my best hunting bow I was shooting, something came up I set it on the hood of the truck, strung, I forgot about it, rained all night,, next day there it was,,,I thought I ruined it,,
unstrung it ,, started shooting it the next day was fine,, I dont think I hit 200 fps though,,,
  hunted and stump shot the whole elk season with it,, on the long shots for stumps 130 yards,, it still had great cast, even with my 700 grain arrows,, made that bow with Jim Hamm bout 25 years ago,, ok enough bragging bout my water proof osage,,

[PatM]

So far as I know all the museum pieces have noticeable set in the limbs and no visible evidence of heat-treating.  If it was practiced by even some natives then you would think it would be common practice to heat-treat their bows.  Also by some accounts when an outstanding bow was taken in war, or traded for in peace, then its value and impressiveness was talked about and probably even mimicked by others, don't see any evidence of heat-treated bows there either.

   The ones which are mentioned being practically black with age might be hiding it.
 
 The other explanation of course will be because the extant examples are from after the art was lost. 

[JW_Halverson]

So far as I know all the museum pieces have noticeable set in the limbs and no visible evidence of heat-treating.  If it was practiced by even some natives then you would think it would be common practice to heat-treat their bows.  Also by some accounts when an outstanding bow was taken in war, or traded for in peace, then its value and impressiveness was talked about and probably even mimicked by others, don't see any evidence of heat-treated bows there either.

   The ones which are mentioned being practically black with age might be hiding it.
 
 The other explanation of course will be because the extant examples are from after the art was lost. 

If the art was lost, claiming Native American heritage as bona fides becomes a false argument. If it was a lost art and there is no evidence of the actual process, again, how do you claim you rediscovered it. Chain of evidence and all that. Nah, this whole thing smacks of a pig in a poke designed to sucker the credulous neophytes.

[PatM]

I have heard numerous sources that stone tools were knapped by dripping boiling water from an eagle feather to pop off flakes. Utter B.S.

Just like a lot of supposedly handed down information about bow building, I think a whole heck of a lot of it is pure crap from people that have never made a bow.  And when someone comes up with yet another claim that their technique is exactly the way it was done way back when, I go to the cupboard for the big salt canister. Until I see an unbroken chain of evidence connecting the past with current times, I have to be skeptical.

Same goes for "revolutionary" breakthroughs making everything else obsolete.  In those cases I go to the feed store to buy a stack of salt blocks.

Combine the two together and I am stepping back, simply because I cannot afford to swing the mortgage payments on a former Soviet salt mine in Siberia.

If these claims by Shannon are as good as the hyperbole describes, I would like to see 5 similar whitewood bows left in the rain for 48 hours and then all shoot fairly close to 200 fps with 10 gpp arrows.

I honestly am considering buying a few bows from him just to try out. I mean, honestly, they do look nice... and sweet gum had my interest just because. I'd also get an elm bow from them as it's my favorite bow wood, and of course  an osage bow.

   You have between $900 and $1250 to buy bows to try out?

[sleek]

I have heard numerous sources that stone tools were knapped by dripping boiling water from an eagle feather to pop off flakes. Utter B.S.

Just like a lot of supposedly handed down information about bow building, I think a whole heck of a lot of it is pure crap from people that have never made a bow.  And when someone comes up with yet another claim that their technique is exactly the way it was done way back when, I go to the cupboard for the big salt canister. Until I see an unbroken chain of evidence connecting the past with current times, I have to be skeptical.

Same goes for "revolutionary" breakthroughs making everything else obsolete.  In those cases I go to the feed store to buy a stack of salt blocks.

Combine the two together and I am stepping back, simply because I cannot afford to swing the mortgage payments on a former Soviet salt mine in Siberia.

If these claims by Shannon are as good as the hyperbole describes, I would like to see 5 similar whitewood bows left in the rain for 48 hours and then all shoot fairly close to 200 fps with 10 gpp arrows.

I honestly am considering buying a few bows from him just to try out. I mean, honestly, they do look nice... and sweet gum had my interest just because. I'd also get an elm bow from them as it's my favorite bow wood, and of course  an osage bow.

   You have between $900 and $1250 to buy bows to try out?

In about 2 months I will

[Deerhunter21]

I have heard numerous sources that stone tools were knapped by dripping boiling water from an eagle feather to pop off flakes. Utter B.S.

Just like a lot of supposedly handed down information about bow building, I think a whole heck of a lot of it is pure crap from people that have never made a bow.  And when someone comes up with yet another claim that their technique is exactly the way it was done way back when, I go to the cupboard for the big salt canister. Until I see an unbroken chain of evidence connecting the past with current times, I have to be skeptical.

Same goes for "revolutionary" breakthroughs making everything else obsolete.  In those cases I go to the feed store to buy a stack of salt blocks.

Combine the two together and I am stepping back, simply because I cannot afford to swing the mortgage payments on a former Soviet salt mine in Siberia.

If these claims by Shannon are as good as the hyperbole describes, I would like to see 5 similar whitewood bows left in the rain for 48 hours and then all shoot fairly close to 200 fps with 10 gpp arrows.

I honestly am considering buying a few bows from him just to try out. I mean, honestly, they do look nice... and sweet gum had my interest just because. I'd also get an elm bow from them as it's my favorite bow wood, and of course  an osage bow.

   You have between $900 and $1250 to buy bows to try out?

In about 2 months I will

wow sleek! which one you thinking?

[sleek]

I'm thinking about that elm and sweet gum they have for starts. If they have a decent bow  I'd like to learn from it.

[bassman]

Boy , this thread has really sparked the interest of some well seasoned bow makers. Trade them a couple of yours for a couple of theirs. That would be fair .They can compare yours, and you can compare theirs. That would be some pretty convincing evidence one way or the other.Just a thought.