Failure forging the socket of arrowheads

[Bootthrower]

I've been trying for a while now to make good arrowheads, but there is a problem somewhere, but I can't tell what it is!
I've made like 20 arrowheads but only one came out in one piece (and still isn't a beauty). The problem is that soon after or even during the rolling of the socket it breaks!
I don't know what I am doing wrong exactly. I flatten the end of a rod of iron to about 3 times the width of the rod with a thickness of about a sheet of paper. Then I carefully fold it to form a cone/socket (making sure to bring in the shoulder first). Sometimes I see fractures here already where the shoulder of the socket joins what will become the point. Then I use needle nose pliers inserted into the socket to hold the head whilst trying to make the point. This is where almost without fail the socket breaks of from the point right where the two join together. I can't tell what I'm doing wrong. Am I making the walls of the socket too thin, or do I work the metal too cold? I assume I put strain on the socket when I shape the point and that that movement causes the fractures to break the head in two, but I don't know how else to do it.

Help would be greatly appreciated, so if anyone has experience making arrowheads I'll gladly take your advice if you recognize what I'm doing wrong.

[dylanholderman]

I’d say probably too cold and also take a carful look at your hammer, if it has sharp corners you might be making a bunch of cold shuts that cause it to fail later in the process.

Also pics!

[Mr. Woolery]

The thinner the steel, the faster it gets cold.  I suggest making it closer to 1/16 inch thick, maybe a little less. 

Here's me making some bodkin points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld1LROiBL9U&t=4s

I leave the socket walls close to 1/16" and they don't crack on me.  Remember that the walls of the socket do support the arrowhead.  Making them too thin may reduce the support. 

When you say a rod of iron, are you talking about mild steel or wrought iron?  I know that my experiences (limited) with wrought iron show that if it is much below welding heat, the layers start to separate.  This means there are cracks in the material just from how the metal's structure goes together.  If it is mild steel or carbon steel, then this is not germane, but if you are trying to work wrought iron, that may well be your problem. 

Pictures would probably help a lot.

-Patrick

[Mr. Woolery]

And Dylan is absolutely correct about the hammer.  A lot of hammers come with "chamfered" corners.  That means a 45 degree angle knocking off the sharp corner around the edge of the hammer face.  This isn't enough.  I round that into a smooth radius all around the edge of the hammer face.  I can usually tell if another smith hasn't rounded his hammer just because you can see the edge of every single blow he's delivered to his steel.  It shows up as lines where a sharp corner dug into the hot metal.  Getting it out is nearly impossible.  Preventing it is simply a matter of hammer prep.

A hammer seems like such a clumsy tool, but it isn't.  When you know your hammer, you can be very precise, even with a rounded face on a 2 pound lump of steel on the end of the handle.  I don't know how to explain it, but it is sort of magic.  I started out thinking that a sharp corner would allow much more precision, but it didn't.  The rounded hammer face is just as precise and doesn't create cold shuts on the surface of the blade. 

-Patrick

[Bootthrower]

I don't think I forge any colder than you seem to do in your video (which looks very helpful and I will watch it again before trying tomorrow).

I used to forge them out of rebar which I think is made from mild steel. The stuff I use now is a rod of steel with a carbon content of about 0.01%, but it is not wrought iron, so none of the grain stuff.

I definitively think I made mine thinner than yours. I think I need to leave more thickness, at least up by the shoulder, so it can support the head. I guess it doesn't matter as much down at the bottom of the socket, but the top is probably much too thin. I will try leaving it thicker next time. I think I am to paranoid of making it too heavy/bulky and clumsy that I instead make it too thin and fragile.

My newer hammers all have that 45 degree angle! I hadn't thought of that. I used to use an antique hammer that had worn down rounder edges and I actually think it was what I used when I made that one successful head! That is hopefully the root of my problem. I will look into it tomorrow and hopefully resolve it.
Can the chamfered edges be rounded with a hand file? Or is the face of the hammer usually much to hard for a hand file to be of any use?

[Bootthrower]

I am trying to attach pics, but it doesn't seem to work. The pics refuse to show up

[Mr. Woolery]

A file should work fine for dressing the hammer face. Hammers have to be resilient because you are pounding on steel with them. That translates to a softer steel than a file, which is made to cut steel.

Patrick

[Bootthrower]

Today I filed my hammers and made the socket thicker up by the shoulder and voila! Out came a great bodkin!
I don't know what did it, perhaps a combination of the two, but it worked wonders! The head is by no means perfect, but the best one I've made so far. Now that it doesn't break in two I can start improving the finer details and the speed of forging.

This head is essentially complete. I still need to file some more on the socket and I will admit I had a small cold shut up by the tip, but I managed to file most of it away. After that I just need to harden it.

Thanks a lot for your help! You seemed to have been spot on about the problem and now I can finally batch out some arrowheads!

I'd like to show a pic of the arrowhead, but I think the size of the picture files are too big to upload

[Mr. Woolery]

I would love to see the picture if you can manage to post it.

Congrats on getting it sorted out!  I know that the simple concept of rounding off the corners was a huge level-up for me.  Sometimes those simple little things do so much more than we'd ever expect.

-Patrick

[Bootthrower]

I am really pissed about it, but I really can't reduce the size of the file enough to upload. I will try some more, but right now it seems it won't work..

Yeah! I forged some more today and really think it made a difference! I might just be imagining it, but it felt much faster and easier to get more even and polished surfaces on my work. Thanks once again!

[Stoker]

Email the pic to yourself. Should resize it for you automatically. Then save them. Works for me
Thanks Leroy

[Bootthrower]

That's what I did, but the file was still too big, even when I cut down the photo as much as possible in size.

[bubby]

I use photo resizer on my phone but you can load it on your computer. It's really simple

[bubby]

Here's how I do it. Down load the app

[bubby]

Then I select a pic and hit the share button, then click on the resizer. This takes you to the app