Author Topic: Hello! Introduction and .. yada yada .. **UPDATED**  (Read 4581 times)

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Offline NicAzana

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Hello! Introduction and .. yada yada .. **UPDATED**
« on: June 22, 2019, 04:13:45 am »
Hello everyone here at PA!

I've been a lurker for a while now on these forums, and finally got a reason to post something. I'm in Denmark, and have only buildt one bow before, an english longbow that still shoots after 4 years, bow turned out too light (~27#) and took quite a lot of set, due to some tillering mistakes (learned  lot though).

Now I'm trying out a Møllegabet type bow, which I thought was appropriate as a Dane. The stave is (I think) european yew, which i bargained for with a groundskeeper in a famous danish cemetary in Copenhagen (where Hans Christian Andersen and Søren Kierkegaard are buried, among others). As you can see below, it is not very ring dense and has rather light colored heartwood, but I wanted to give it a shot because of it's history, while some elm i harvested this spring dries.

Stave:

I've got it profiled down (left the tips wide for string alignment correction), and reduced to around 1 inch thickness measured from the quite high crown (I'm a little paranoid about it turning out too light this time). It's 65 inches ttt and 2 inches wide at the fades, fading to about 1.5 inch at the lever fades. Top limb (away from me in the images) is 0.5 inches longer. The handle section is 7.5 inch including fades. With ~15 inches of working limb, 1.5 inches of lever fades and 11 inch levers. I kept the levers a little on the short side because of all the knots. Target weight ~50#, though I wouldn't get upset If it ended up at 45#.

I'm getting a little worried with the knots in this piece; there not that large, but several are quite punky, and they're in bad places, close to the edges and in the working part of the limbs, so I'm basically seeking advice on how to deal with these. Also, anyone (Mr Cat?) have experience with european yew of this sort? Am I wasting my time here?

Here's some closeups of the problem areas:

This is probably the one 'm least worried about. It looks like it won't be in the finished limb, but am I screwed if a corner of it remains in the belly edge in the end?
Knot#1:

The top one here is the same as above, however it is in the middle of the working part of the limb, and will definitely end up on the belly edge, unless I reduce thickness a lot. The bottom knot is rather small and not as punky as the others, but goes right through the limb. I left some sapwood on the top of the knots, when I reduced it from ~1/2 inch to around 1/4 inch.
Knot#2+3:

These are my main concern. Twin knots going from belly to side, right out of the fade in the working limb..
Knot#4+5:

Thank you for any advice you might be able to contribute, I hope I'll have much more to show in the future, and thank all of you for all the help and inspiration you've already unwittingly provided me!!

Nicolas
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 05:24:30 am by Mr_Azana »
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

Offline NicAzana

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One more thing.. The stave has some deflex, that I would like to remove before I tiller it. Maybe recurve the levers very slightly (~1 inch), mainly for looks. The problem is that most of the reflex is right around the are with the too knots... Can use dry heat for this task, or should I steam it, one section at a time?
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

Offline Del the cat

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    • Derek Hutchison Native Wood Self Bows
I've had plenty of experience with Yew like that. Dig out any punky knots and plug 'em (make sure you get down to clean wood... no point doing half the job.
The important thing is the sapwood, if that is clean then you should be fine.
Don't worry about colour or ring density. I've made a 100# warbow with English Yew that was 3 pings per in ch in places, but the wood was dark, I've seen pale tight grained Yew. Treat each piece on it's own merits.
Either steam or dry heat works well, if the corrections pull out, then fix them in place with heat treating, dry heat slow and steady until there is a slight colour change. Protect the sapwood from any dry heat tho'.
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline NicAzana

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Thanks for the advice Del. So, with the punky knots that go from belly to side, should i just dril through with an appropriately sized drill, and then epoxy a yew plug through?

Does it have to be yew, or can i plug it with anything? I'm getting ideas of plugging it with either some old ebony wood i have lying around, or maybe epoxy mixed with charcoal.. May be even something that would make the two knots look like a set of eyes...
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

Offline NicAzana

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Should i fix the knots before or after heat-bending? Won't the heat mess with the glue?
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

Offline Del the cat

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Should i fix the knots before or after heat-bending? Won't the heat mess with the glue?
Do the heat work first. But if you are worried that the knots will cause a problem during bending do it before, and if necessary do it again after... gotta be willing to do things more than once if necessary.
Del
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 08:25:55 am by Del the cat »
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline bjrogg

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Welcome to PA Mr Azana. I'm afraid I can't help you with the Yew. Have never had the pleasure of having a Yew stave. Del is the man though. He won't lead you astray. And he has a good sense of humor to.
Bjrogg
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Offline SLIMBOB

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No experience with yew...ever sadly. One day I will remedy that, but I made an Osage bow a few years back that had these types of knots. Multiple knots on both limbs. Several exited along the side of the limb leaving a void. Not ideal to say the least. I took scotch tape and damed (is this a word?  damned, dammed, made a damn dam)) off the edges and filled with CA glue. I added a bit of sinew to several. I don’t think it did anything, but it’s in there. Peeled the tape off and hoped for the best. Probably my favorite bow. It’s special. Never a problem with it now 4-5 years I think. There’s a post on it with some pics of the voids. “Knotty Boy”. I don’t know if yew will hold up the same, but food for thought.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 07:49:06 am by SLIMBOB »
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Offline JW_Halverson

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Welcome, Mr Azana, welcome indeed!

Del will shepherd you through this process, he's a great guy.  If you start to get spooked, put down the tools and go wander through his blog for inspiration, laughs, and curiosities: http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline SLIMBOB

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The pic was in a "Work in Progress" thread for the bow trade that year and hard to locate, but here you go.  I don't know if Yew behaves in the same way as Osage (Osage being Royalty and all  ;) ) so let Del guide you thru all of this.  I offer this as just food for thought in case it might help.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline Del the cat

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    • Derek Hutchison Native Wood Self Bows
Thanks for the advice Del. So, with the punky knots that go from belly to side, should i just dril through with an appropriately sized drill, and then epoxy a yew plug through?

Does it have to be yew, or can i plug it with anything? I'm getting ideas of plugging it with either some old ebony wood i have lying around, or maybe epoxy mixed with charcoal.. May be even something that would make the two knots look like a set of eyes...
I prefer to pick out the manky stuff with a ground down needle file, that way you can avoid cutting into the flow of the grain. I like to fill with Yew dust and epoxy, using a fairly dry mix... the assumption being that Yew dust will more likely have similar properties to the parent wood... I sometimes add some walnut dust if I want it to look dark.
These 2 posts from my blog may be of interest :-
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/01/mystery-knot.html
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/01/filled-knot.html
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline NicAzana

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Wow, thanks for all the great help! This is turning out to really be a nice place to hang out.

Del: Thanks for the sound advice: I've already been to your wonderful blog numerous times, just didn't find any on knots that were exactly like mine:) What kind of epoxy do you use on knots?

Slimbob: Thanks for going through the trouble of finding those photos for me, what a beautiful bow! I actually thought CA glue was a bad filler that wouldn't cure in a layer that thick. I guess I was wrong. Did you use a special brand, or did you do it in steps?

I think I'll try the heat first, as it doesn't have to bend very far. I'll go for just straightening it, with no reflex in the working limb, for safety. Then I'll dig out the knots and evaluate from there. I don't really enjoy the looks of tjose sawdust plugs very much, however, I'll enjoy the broken bow even less;)

I probably wont be able to do much in a while, but I'll post you guys an update as soon as I get anything done.

-Nicolas
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana

Offline DC

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I don't like the looks of the sawdust filled knot either. I saw an article where they used a small diameter branch as as the plug. It looked like a solid knot. I tried it once and my results were less than stellar but someone with more talent should be able to pull it off. I think that using the centre of a larger branch(so the wood was more consistent) might be the way to go.

Offline SLIMBOB

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I use Loktite CA glue. I heated the bow and the glue. It sucked it up and I kept adding glue until saturated.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline Hawkdancer

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First things first - welcome aboard Mr Azana!  These folks have a wealth of knowledge!  And humor!  It must be a result of working on a never ending addiction!  Can't give any advise on plugging knots, but am wondering whether a plug taken from an off cut and aligned with the bow grain would be too conspicuous, or even hold?
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry